McCain in '08

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote

Actually, I have followed it. Naming the "Keating Five" does not stray
from the topic. Any further discussion of them IS irrelevant.

The thread really ought to be on rec.aviation.misc, rather than in
piloting.

What we need is a new group. Call it rec.aviation.politics. From the
amount of interest in discussing politics in THIS group, it ought to be a
big hit! g
--
Jim in NC

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:04:15 -0400, Owen Hiller
wrote in ::


You are the man who brought up "Keating Five" in the thread.

Yes. I provided an excerpt of a news article that indicated that
McCain (the topic of this message thread) was a member of the Keating
Five. To overlook that while assessing McCain's character would be an
error of omission. Don't you agree?

Follow your own advice first before you dictate to others.

I'm not dictating anything to anyone. I just pointed out, that to
discuss the other four members of the Keating Five would not shed any
more light on McCain's character.

It seems several readers are having some difficulty comprehending the
concept of on-topic discussion.

Of course, we are all free to post as we please and suffer the
consequences of those article we post; that's the egalitarian nature
of Usenet.

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:16:15 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote in ::

What we need is a new group. Call it rec.aviation.politics. From the
amount of interest in discussing politics in THIS group, it ought to be a
big hit!

I'll second that. I'd like to see a Experimental Aircraft Association
newsgroup too.

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
I'll second that. I'd like to see a Experimental Aircraft Association
newsgroup too.


What's wrong with rec.aviation.homebuilt as an outlet for EAA questions?


Montblack

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
I don't for a second admire that he was a POW. It wasn't his choice. He
didn't want to be one. Having been raised by a POW and seen the
long-term effects of what subhumans did to him, there's nothing about
his experience to admire. One can only respect them and remember to
give thanks.

If you would, come back at this again, maybe even from head on, but do,
please, take another swing at this. It's an interesting thought, and
perspective.

I was raised by a former POW who was shot down and then tortured by the
Gestapo because his dogtags were missing and he "looked German"; imprisoned
at Stalag XVII-B and later left to die at KZ Mauthausen. I admire him for
his courage, having served as an aerial gunner. I certainly don't admire
his experience as a POW; he would have thought such a thing crazy.

Having said that, the lessons one learns from the experience of such a
parent are both difficult to articulate and impossible to forget.

Just a reader trying to sort out: the experience, choice, the man, give
thanks, respect, and admire.

I honor the integrity and strength of character that made him who he was in
spite of the happened to him, but I cannot "admire" his experience because I
would never want to see men, women and children stripped naked and machine
gunned into mass graves or shredded alive by SS dogs, nor would I want to
see my name on the wall at Andersonville. Whatever strength it might bring
to my character simply wouldn't be worth it.

Hope that makes more sense. If he were to have entered the political arena,
we might have disagreed bitterly on some issues, but I would never have
attempted to devalue his wartime courage or service to this country. This is
what I perceive to be happening to decorated veterans by politicians for
political purposes.

-c

"Owen Hiller" wrote in message
...

Here's the bottom line. McCain was a POW. He gave many years of his
life
in service of his country. To attempt to diminish or devalue that for
political leverage is absolutely beneath contempt. That's the way it is.
Semper Fi.

To attempt to use one's past service and sacrifices for today's political
leverage does great disservice to EVERYONE who has had sacrifice.

To attempt to diminish one's past service and sacrifices for today's
political leverage does great disservice to everyone who has had to
sacrifice.

Here's an example:

"A man with a couple of years of active duty and the rest of his 37 year
career spent in the Marine Corps Reserve. [Is that somehow a discredit to
his character?] A man with one year in Vietnam as a staff intelligence
offer. A man who's no more been in combat or is a war hero than I am. Even
John Kerry has more combat experience than Jack Murtha."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fnews/1655125/posts

For perspective:

"In 1959, Murtha, then a captain, took command of the 34th Special Infantry
Company, Marine Corps Reserves, in Johnstown. He remained in the Reserves
after his discharge from active duty until he volunteered for service in the
Vietnam War, serving from 1966 to 1967, serving as a battalion staff officer
(S-2 Intelligence Section), receiving the Bronze Star with Valor device, two
Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. He retired from the
Reserves as a colonel in 1990, receiving the Navy Distinguished Service
Medal."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murtha#...litary_service

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news:JCdtg.7776
I remember some of the attacks on Kerry, but not the others.


But do you remember any by "the right"? I remember the Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth, but they weren't a right wing group, their message
wasn't political at all.

Ah, right. Just happened to organize and go public during an election year,
specifically for the purpose of discrediting, gee, a presidential candidate.


Yeah, uh, nothing "political at all." Yeesh.

-c

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:31:31 -0500, "Montblack"
wrote in
::


What's wrong with rec.aviation.homebuilt as an outlet for EAA questions?

It fails to address all the other EAA activities: Sport Pilot, Air
Venture, ...

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote

But do you remember any by "the right"? I remember the Swift Boat
Veterans
for Truth, but they weren't a right wing group, their message wasn't
political at all.

Humm, that is an interesting take. Who else would be attacking Kerry, if
not the right? And to say it isn't political, is, wellll...g
--
Jim in NC

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:31:31 -0500, "Montblack"
wrote:

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
I'll second that. I'd like to see a Experimental Aircraft Association
newsgroup too.


What's wrong with rec.aviation.homebuilt as an outlet for EAA questions?

And alt.rant for the politics?

Don