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#1
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Gap seals
Now that my radio is working again my attention is turning back towards glider performance. My PIK 20B has very close fitting ailerons, but no mylar seals on them. My question is, are gap seals required top and bottom, just bottom, just top? I think the laminar flow is off the wing by the time it gets back to the ailerons on top?
Udo Rumpf said The Pik20 and the LS3 use both the FX67-15%&17% The Performance can be enhanced by first: making the airfoil accurate in both shape plus or minus 2.5% and waves within the .002"-.004" tolerance and second installing a turbulator on the top at about 52% chord. I would use 3/16" cylinder dots about .040" high and spaced 1.25" apart. Within 1.5" down stream due to the 35 deg. wake the "top" surface will be awash in turbulent attach flow, at higher speed the effect will take a little more distance.. So what is the proper way to measure 52% chord? Thanks, 3Y |
#2
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Gap seals
On Monday, February 1, 2016 at 9:24:07 PM UTC-5, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
Now that my radio is working again my attention is turning back towards glider performance. My PIK 20B has very close fitting ailerons, but no mylar seals on them. My question is, are gap seals required top and bottom, just bottom, just top? I think the laminar flow is off the wing by the time it gets back to the ailerons on top? Udo Rumpf said The Pik20 and the LS3 use both the FX67-15%&17% The Performance can be enhanced by first: making the airfoil accurate in both shape plus or minus 2.5% and waves within the .002"-.004" tolerance and second installing a turbulator on the top at about 52% chord. I would use 3/16" cylinder dots about .040" high and spaced 1.25" apart. Within 1.5" down stream due to the 35 deg. wake the "top" surface will be awash in turbulent attach flow, at higher speed the effect will take a little more distance. So what is the proper way to measure 52% chord? Thanks, 3Y The PIK20's in my club (2 B's) both have internal fabric seals (looks like shower curtain material), no mylars. We see them a lot since the mass balance weights are checked on every annual... Can't help with the turbulator. |
#3
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Gap seals
On 2/1/2016 7:24 PM, Blake Seese 3Y wrote:
My PIK 20B has very close fitting ailerons, but no mylar seals on them. My question is, are gap seals required top and bottom, just bottom, just top? I think the laminar flow is off the wing by the time it gets back to the ailerons on top? From a cross-flow perspective (i.e. low-pressure-side to high-pressure-side of the wing), and assuming the seal works perfectly, it makes no difference where the seal is, but - the devil being in the details - top-only mylar would be more likely to be sucked/pushed-away-from the surface than similarly-attached bottom-only, the bottom being the higher pressure side. This assumes leading-edge-only attachment of the mylar, of course. Good old, crude, sticky vinyl tape attached along both edges may be less prone to such separation, but even then it's easy to rationalize the "tape crinkle bump" on the bottom is less likely to be measurably draggy than on the top (and arguably will turbulate, woo hoo!), if you opt for a single-sided installation. "Roger that," on "close fitting ailerons" but air's gonna move from low pressure to high by whatever paths are available, so it's definitely better from a theoretical viewpoint to block such passages if they offend you for any reason. Whether so doing will have measurable effects? Check out Dick Johnson's (numerous) flight test reports done to his(?) PIK-20 over the course of several years...easily found in the online "Soaring" mag archive. That said, I never bothered to seal my Zuni's control surfaces gaps (same airfoils, for all practical purposes); doing so wasn't sufficiently good for my soul. - - - - - - Udo Rumpf said The Pik20 and the LS3 use both the FX67-15%&17% In various thicknesses, that was the flapped section of choice in those "1st generation glass" days: PIK-20; Nimbus II; Glasflugel 604; Jantar 2B; Janus; Vega; Zuni; Nugget & almost certainly others. - - - - - - So what is the proper way to measure 52% chord? Straightforwardly done with a 3-dimensional T-square for a PIK-20 (conveniently manufactured with a straight leading edge, essentially perpendicular to the fuselage's vertical center plane). You can make one from 2 pieces of wood, doing your best to make the straight bit that picks up the L.E. of the wing, 90-degrees out of plane to the one laying flat against the bottom of the wing and extending at least to the T.E. I seem to remember the PIK-20 has a single crank at the inboard of the aileron on the trailing edge. Because of the crank, you'll need to locate dots (turbulator tape positions) along 3 straight lines along the side of the wing of interest (the bottom for turbulator tape). Spanwise, locate one line immediately outboard of any wingroot fairing, one at the T.E. crank, and one as conveniently near the wing tip as possible. This is one of those "lay things out the best you can, be as precise as reasonably possible, and call it good" tasks, given the uncertainties of turbulator physics. Each line should be perpendicular to the L.E., from L.E. to T.E. 0.52 of the in-plane, straight-line distance from the L.E. aft to the T.E. is 52% of the chord along each line. Connect the 52% dots with spanwise straight lines and you have your turbulator tape position....if 52% is what you want. (Working from memory, that seems "somewhat" forward of what I seem to remember gleaning from old "Soaring" magazines.) If you're really picky, chord is measured as if the wing planform is 2-dimensional, so measuring *along* a "sharpied" line from L.E. to T.E. will introduce a slight fore-n-aft error. It's most accurate to measure along the T-square's chordwise piece, from the front board aft to the T.E., at each L.E. location of interest. Some might choke on the crudeness-as-described methodology, but it should at least give you an idea of what you're trying to accomplish, and will almost certainly "be good enough for government work." Have fun! Bob W. |
#4
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Gap seals
Uhhhh... "air is going to move from low pressure to high...?
I don't think so. Open your O2 cylinder and see whether the gas comes out or goes in. |
#5
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Gap seals
On 2/2/2016 6:17 AM, Mark628CA wrote:
Uhhhh... "air is going to move from low pressure to high...? I don't think so. Open your O2 cylinder and see whether the gas comes out or goes in. Ha ha ha! I tried this with some old weirdly-colored cylinder lying around, and the gas came out; made me all giggly and goofy, too - great fun! So I'm glad to see SOMEone is paying attention. At least I got the direction of the air's movement relative to the wing plane correct. Credibility, it's all about credibility (Doh!)... Bob - thanks for the correction! - W. |
#6
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Gap seals
The PIK20's in my club (2 B's) both have internal fabric seals (looks like shower curtain material), no mylars. We see them a lot since the mass balance weights are checked on every annual... I was thinking the same thing... need to take off 5-6 year old fabric tape from the ailerons, but if the seals need to come off for the aileron inspection i figured there is no point in mylar, so i was going to either just double-check the internal seals, or do that and put a fresh fabric tape on. I don't see any tape on the flaps though...is that normal? |
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