Newest Sailplane in the world on display at the 2016 SSA convention

On 2/10/2016 11:10 AM, smfidler wrote:
Just a cool breeze of clam and patience
Not the first words that pop up in my mind when I read "internet Sean's"
posts ;-)

Luke

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 3:36:25 PM UTC-5, Luke Szczepaniak wrote:
On 2/10/2016 11:10 AM, smfidler wrote:
Just a cool breeze of clam and patience
Not the first words that pop up in my mind when I read "internet Sean's"
posts ;-)

Luke

Hey, Internet Sean is, "Happy as a clam" on new sailplanes...... or, did he mean to post "calm"???

[BTW, what is a "cool breeze of clam"?, a winter "passing of gas" from a bivalve?]

/sarcasm......

[I really HATE peeps that use small devices with "auto-complete" and then don't read BEFORE posting...... things can make a whole lot of difference after posting...., say's the "technophobe".....]

LOL....

There is always the, "Next great thing", marketing types always trumpet the advances, it's their job.
I've worked decades in service & manufacturing, I'm usually stuck between what "Sales sells" and what "engineering can provide within the costs".
I'm usually part of the phone calls that ask, "Why doesn't it do what I was told it would do?!".

As an aside, I wonder how much traction a 13.5 meter class will actually gain. Not the 1st time someone has pushed a "one design class". Only really good example is the SGS-1-26 class, basically the rest were, "Good ideas that went nowhere."

The 13.5 meter class, like all of the other FAI classes (now), is not a one design class...

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 6:15:45 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
The 13.5 meter class, like all of the other FAI classes (now), is not a one design class...

While you are correct, it "appears" to me that it is a direction some are going for.
Unless the handicap is good/one design class, why would you buy one unless it's NOT contest related?

It may be a great, "Get into soaring/XC soaring" sailplane for not a lot of money, but if you decide to do contests (outside of a one design class), what is the point?

Yes, I'm wearing Nomex underwear, flame away.
Not saying to avoid this or other sailplanes in this range, sorta depends on what you're looking for.
A "new design, no worries on NDH/NDDH issues, no AD's [in the US], warranty, etc." is a GREAT thing.
Buy away.
But, what is YOUR ultimate goal?

This could be a great way to "get your feet wet" on XC, fly a handicapped contest (yes, contest, NOT race.....) and decide where you want to go next.
It may even be the, "Modern SGS-1-26" to get peeps going away from the local airport.
Fantastic.

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 6:56:44 PM UTC-5, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 6:15:45 PM UTC-5, Tony wrote:
The 13.5 meter class, like all of the other FAI classes (now), is not a one design class...

While you are correct, it "appears" to me that it is a direction some are going for.
Unless the handicap is good/one design class, why would you buy one unless it's NOT contest related?

It may be a great, "Get into soaring/XC soaring" sailplane for not a lot of money, but if you decide to do contests (outside of a one design class), what is the point?

Yes, I'm wearing Nomex underwear, flame away.
Not saying to avoid this or other sailplanes in this range, sorta depends on what you're looking for.
A "new design, no worries on NDH/NDDH issues, no AD's [in the US], warranty, etc." is a GREAT thing.
Buy away.
But, what is YOUR ultimate goal?

This could be a great way to "get your feet wet" on XC, fly a handicapped contest (yes, contest, NOT race.....) and decide where you want to go next.
It may even be the, "Modern SGS-1-26" to get peeps going away from the local airport.
Fantastic.

Sorry gents, my internet thumbs and rushing to type fast on a phone really blew that post up badly. Im just going to give up on that one...

To have fun & enjoy soaring & flying XC.
Too many people are getting hung up on absolute levels of performance. Look
at the fun the club class are having.

In my case I wanted an Electric Sustainer.
Electric for reliability, and someone has to be an early adopter.
Only needs to be a sustainer to get me away from a farmers field to
hopefully a more friendly reception at an airfield.
Being electric limits the amount of "fuel" on board so minimum drag with
the engine running means FES appeals more than "engine on a stick".
(I've already owned a Discus bT for 10 years so been there done that on the
"Engine on a stick")
My preference would have been for a FES modification to my Discus B, but
too many hurdles in EASA land. I'm not aware of any FES modified sailplanes
in USA where things are apparently easier.
Most of the people I fly with have Discus / LS4 / ASW20 level of
performance so would have liked to avoid going up to 18m

Resale values mean Schempp or Schleicher.

The option I've gone for is the D2c FES, I'm prepared to take the hit on
the FES "penalty", my inability to keep the string in the middle is
probably a much greater issue anyway.

In 5-10 yrs time when we decide to replace the Discus bT I'll have another
look at the GP series.

KN

At 23:56 10 February 2016, Charlie M. UH & 002 owner/pilot wrote:
Unless the handicap is good/one design class, why would you buy one
unless
it's NOT contest related?

ASW27 and V2 have a wing profile from mid 90's. ASG29 has basically modified tips, which naturally have to follow the original profile.

V3 has 2 decades more worth of aerodynamical knowledge in it's design. One can speculate how much has happened during last 20 years but at least there is a great chance that something has.

Performance increase from one generation to next tends to be small but noticeable, otherwise you wouldn't design and build new gliders. For SH, all it takes is glider buying pilots believe that it will be better than 29. There are lot of pilots who tend to stick with one factory product and they surely have jumped already in que for V3.

One thing that bothers me is (6ft5') the fact that SH still sticks with fuselage built for dwarfs in a age when average size of people is something else. Would you buy new 200k glider with too big fuselage, knowing that similar glider with too small fuselage is better? Other one is FES blades sticking in the wind. The system is great, but when aiming to world's podium it just isn't the way to go. Unless they manage to fair the blades in some way (should be doable).

Comparing the FES to the GP14 folding prop/ pylon design I would hazard a guess that better propellor performance in the GP14 design will negate any detriment from pylon drag.

Actually the 29 vs 27 has more modified than the wing tips. The airfoil is modified, the planform of the wing even in 15 is modified and the mixer is modified...

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 12:34:37 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
ASW27 and V2 have a wing profile from mid 90's. ASG29 has basically modified tips, which naturally have to follow the original profile.

V3 has 2 decades more worth of aerodynamical knowledge in it's design. One can speculate how much has happened during last 20 years but at least there is a great chance that something has.

Performance increase from one generation to next tends to be small but noticeable, otherwise you wouldn't design and build new gliders. For SH, all it takes is glider buying pilots believe that it will be better than 29. There are lot of pilots who tend to stick with one factory product and they surely have jumped already in que for V3.

One thing that bothers me is (6ft5') the fact that SH still sticks with fuselage built for dwarfs in a age when average size of people is something else. Would you buy new 200k glider with too big fuselage, knowing that similar glider with too small fuselage is better? Other one is FES blades sticking in the wind. The system is great, but when aiming to world's podium it just isn't the way to go. Unless they manage to fair the blades in some way (should be doable).

AFAIK 29 tip profile is modified as whole planform is different, but I still wouldn't categorize 29 in different generation than 27. Same with JS1a/b and JS1c-EVO, Ventus-2a/b and 2cx etc.

torstai 11. helmikuuta 2016 18.00.52 UTC+2 Jonathan St. Cloud kirjoitti:
Actually the 29 vs 27 has more modified than the wing tips. The airfoil is modified, the planform of the wing even in 15 is modified and the mixer is modified...

On Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 12:34:37 AM UTC-8, krasw wrote:
ASW27 and V2 have a wing profile from mid 90's. ASG29 has basically modified tips, which naturally have to follow the original profile.

V3 has 2 decades more worth of aerodynamical knowledge in it's design. One can speculate how much has happened during last 20 years but at least there is a great chance that something has.

Performance increase from one generation to next tends to be small but noticeable, otherwise you wouldn't design and build new gliders. For SH, all it takes is glider buying pilots believe that it will be better than 29. There are lot of pilots who tend to stick with one factory product and they surely have jumped already in que for V3.

One thing that bothers me is (6ft5') the fact that SH still sticks with fuselage built for dwarfs in a age when average size of people is something else. Would you buy new 200k glider with too big fuselage, knowing that similar glider with too small fuselage is better? Other one is FES blades sticking in the wind. The system is great, but when aiming to world's podium it just isn't the way to go. Unless they manage to fair the blades in some way (should be doable).