Heartfelt Thank You

I was approached by a former student at our club's closing banquet. He stated he was so happy to see me because he wanted to thank me in person for saving his life.

He explained: after receiving his license, he bought a Sinus motor glider, and went flying with a recreational pilot as his P2. They were calibrating the AoA instrument, with his friend the PF, by repeatedly stalling it. But it was so benign that the stall just mushed. His friend got aggressive with it, and stall it did, then dropped a wing into a spin. His friend literally threw up his hands, and my former student took control and applied the recovery technique I had taught him, recovering the aircraft.

We use a venerable 2-32 for spin training, and for the student approaching solo, it is a 'come to Jesus' moment; the laminar wing of the 2-32 seems binary, - it is flying or it is not, and the attitude is dramatic. But as the sign at Ridge Soaring gliderport reads, "In an emergency, you don't rise to the occasion; you sink to the level of your training". Read Malcolm Gladwell's excellent book BLINK to understand why.

My club is in Canada, where spin training is on the curriculum. There is I think only one FBO operating in Canada; the rest of the gliding is club based, and the instructors are unpaid volunteers. But this 'Thank You' was rich payment indeed, and worth sharing I think.

Very will done, indeed!

It is my understanding that, currently in the US, the only requirement
for spin training (except for CFI candidates) is recognition and
avoidance of spins. As your story illustrates, a spin can still happen
and, with two untrained pilots at the controls, the outcome is uncertain.

Having learned to fly in the military, I was very much exposed to spins
and thoroughly enjoyed them, even after training.

Dan

On 10/3/2016 7:58 AM, Charlie Papa wrote:
I was approached by a former student at our club's closing banquet. He stated he was so happy to see me because he wanted to thank me in person for saving his life.

He explained: after receiving his license, he bought a Sinus motor glider, and went flying with a recreational pilot as his P2. They were calibrating the AoA instrument, with his friend the PF, by repeatedly stalling it. But it was so benign that the stall just mushed. His friend got aggressive with it, and stall it did, then dropped a wing into a spin. His friend literally threw up his hands, and my former student took control and applied the recovery technique I had taught him, recovering the aircraft.

We use a venerable 2-32 for spin training, and for the student approaching solo, it is a 'come to Jesus' moment; the laminar wing of the 2-32 seems binary, - it is flying or it is not, and the attitude is dramatic. But as the sign at Ridge Soaring gliderport reads, "In an emergency, you don't rise to the occasion; you sink to the level of your training". Read Malcolm Gladwell's excellent book BLINK to understand why.

My club is in Canada, where spin training is on the curriculum. There is I think only one FBO operating in Canada; the rest of the gliding is club based, and the instructors are unpaid volunteers. But this 'Thank You' was rich payment indeed, and worth sharing I think.

--
Dan, 5J

At 22:17 03 October 2016, Dan Marotta wrote:
Very will done, indeed!

It is my understanding that, currently in the US, the only requirement
for spin training (except for CFI candidates) is recognition and
avoidance of spins. As your story illustrates, a spin can still happen
and, with two untrained pilots at the controls, the outcome is uncertain.

Having learned to fly in the military, I was very much exposed to spins
and thoroughly enjoyed them, even after training.

Dan

On 10/3/2016 7:58 AM, Charlie Papa wrote:
I was approached by a former student at our club's closing banquet. He
stated he was so happy to see me because he wanted to thank me in person
for saving his life.

He explained: after receiving his license, he bought a Sinus motor
glider, and went flying with a recreational pilot as his P2. They were
calibrating the AoA instrument, with his friend the PF, by repeatedly
stalling it. But it was so benign that the stall just mushed. His
friend
got aggressive with it, and stall it did, then dropped a wing into a spin.

His friend literally threw up his hands, and my former student took
control
and applied the recovery technique I had taught him, recovering the
aircraft.

We use a venerable 2-32 for spin training, and for the student
approaching solo, it is a 'come to Jesus' moment; the laminar wing of the
2-32 seems binary, - it is flying or it is not, and the attitude is
dramatic. But as the sign at Ridge Soaring gliderport reads, "In an
emergency, you don't rise to the occasion; you sink to the level of your
training". Read Malcolm Gladwell's excellent book BLINK to understand
why.

My club is in Canada, where spin training is on the curriculum. There
is
I think only one FBO operating in Canada; the rest of the gliding is club
based, and the instructors are unpaid volunteers. But this 'Thank You'
was
rich payment indeed, and worth sharing I think.

--
Dan, 5J


I was surprised to learn that actual spin recovery is not practised in
America. During my 50+ years of gliding annd instructing in the UK it has
always been carried out, which seems very sensible to me, as the experience
can be, and obviously has been a life saver.
Not ony actual spin recoveries are carried out, but many years ago the BGA
introduced a series of Further Stalling and Spinning exercises. These are
aimed at stall/spin avoidance, and are intended to show the pupil that "if
you mistreat the glider like this, this is what is likely to happen". Since
their introduction, the number of stall/spin related accidents has
decreased dramatically. Obviously if the glider doesn't stall , it can't
spin.
It has always been somewhat of a mystery to me, why some of the German
two-seater training gliders were designed to be almost unspinable, at least
without modification, yet pupils then go on to fly gliders that do spin.
One reason why I rate the Puchacz as probably the best available training
glider.
There is no substitute for the experience of actually spinning, which for
many people is not the most pleasant thing in gliding, though I did once
have a pupil who said that she enjoyed it, her reason for delaying the
recovery.
One of my most memorable flying experiences was a spin, not in a glider but
in a small aircraft on my instructors course. The National Coach decided to
demonstrate various things to us, including what happened if the rudder was
not centralised after rotation stopped. One second we were spinning far
faster than any glider, the next second we were spinning the other way, and
I don't remember anything in between.
Years later another National Coach showed me that this could happen in a
glider (a Puchacz), but it was not easy to carry out deliberately, and I
found that I failed 3 times out of 4 attempts.

Dave

I seem to recall the story was that more people died during spin
training than from actual spins so the FAA, in its infinite wisdom,
decided to require spin avoidance training rather than spin recovery
training. Of course the slow, untrained person actually getting into a
spin has no chance to recover and has to rely on the aircraft recovering
itself. I was never much of a fan of that.

On 10/4/2016 2:18 AM, David Salmon wrote:
At 22:17 03 October 2016, Dan Marotta wrote:
Very will done, indeed!

It is my understanding that, currently in the US, the only requirement
for spin training (except for CFI candidates) is recognition and
avoidance of spins. As your story illustrates, a spin can still happen
and, with two untrained pilots at the controls, the outcome is uncertain.

Having learned to fly in the military, I was very much exposed to spins
and thoroughly enjoyed them, even after training.

Dan

On 10/3/2016 7:58 AM, Charlie Papa wrote:
I was approached by a former student at our club's closing banquet. He
stated he was so happy to see me because he wanted to thank me in person
for saving his life.
He explained: after receiving his license, he bought a Sinus motor
glider, and went flying with a recreational pilot as his P2. They were
calibrating the AoA instrument, with his friend the PF, by repeatedly
stalling it. But it was so benign that the stall just mushed. His
friend
got aggressive with it, and stall it did, then dropped a wing into a spin.
His friend literally threw up his hands, and my former student took
control
and applied the recovery technique I had taught him, recovering the
aircraft.
We use a venerable 2-32 for spin training, and for the student
approaching solo, it is a 'come to Jesus' moment; the laminar wing of the
2-32 seems binary, - it is flying or it is not, and the attitude is
dramatic. But as the sign at Ridge Soaring gliderport reads, "In an
emergency, you don't rise to the occasion; you sink to the level of your
training". Read Malcolm Gladwell's excellent book BLINK to understand
why.
My club is in Canada, where spin training is on the curriculum. There
is
I think only one FBO operating in Canada; the rest of the gliding is club
based, and the instructors are unpaid volunteers. But this 'Thank You'
was
rich payment indeed, and worth sharing I think.

--
Dan, 5J
I was surprised to learn that actual spin recovery is not practised in
America. During my 50+ years of gliding annd instructing in the UK it has
always been carried out, which seems very sensible to me, as the experience
can be, and obviously has been a life saver.
Not ony actual spin recoveries are carried out, but many years ago the BGA
introduced a series of Further Stalling and Spinning exercises. These are
aimed at stall/spin avoidance, and are intended to show the pupil that "if
you mistreat the glider like this, this is what is likely to happen". Since
their introduction, the number of stall/spin related accidents has
decreased dramatically. Obviously if the glider doesn't stall , it can't
spin.
It has always been somewhat of a mystery to me, why some of the German
two-seater training gliders were designed to be almost unspinable, at least
without modification, yet pupils then go on to fly gliders that do spin.
One reason why I rate the Puchacz as probably the best available training
glider.
There is no substitute for the experience of actually spinning, which for
many people is not the most pleasant thing in gliding, though I did once
have a pupil who said that she enjoyed it, her reason for delaying the
recovery.
One of my most memorable flying experiences was a spin, not in a glider but
in a small aircraft on my instructors course. The National Coach decided to
demonstrate various things to us, including what happened if the rudder was
not centralised after rotation stopped. One second we were spinning far
faster than any glider, the next second we were spinning the other way, and
I don't remember anything in between.
Years later another National Coach showed me that this could happen in a
glider (a Puchacz), but it was not easy to carry out deliberately, and I
found that I failed 3 times out of 4 attempts.

Dave


--
Dan, 5J

A minor correction to Dave -

Our club in the US does, indeed, do both spin avoidance training and actual spin training before solo. We do that in a Puchacz.

Lou - AG

Oh wow! You are an amazing instructor! This is great!

My big question was of the other pilot threw up in his hands? What kind of pilot does that? Is this a joke?

Maybe you can include training for flying with incompetent pilots that vomit while flying.

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 5:03:27 PM UTC+13, wrote:
Oh wow! You are an amazing instructor! This is great!

My big question was of the other pilot threw up in his hands? What kind of pilot does that? Is this a joke?

1) those saying "You have control"
2) those saying "Insha Allah" (subset of the above, God is the copilot)

Have been around aviation my entire adult life. I know of one instance where letting go of the controls saved one student pilot who inadvertantly had gotten into a spin while practicing slow flight in a cessna 172. As a student pilot just getting ready for his airman check ride, he had not had spin training, only spoke of spinning and recovery, but one thing the instructor had told this student, "if you get into trouble, chop the throttle and take hands and feet off controls". Well, this student did this and the Cessna recovered. I am a believer in teaching pilots how to fly including spinning. I have never been to a glider operation that did not required students to be proficient at spins.


On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 4:01:06 AM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 5:03:27 PM UTC+13, wrote:
Oh wow! You are an amazing instructor! This is great!

My big question was of the other pilot threw up in his hands? What kind of pilot does that? Is this a joke?

1) those saying "You have control"
2) those saying "Insha Allah" (subset of the above, God is the copilot)

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 9:45:53 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Have been around aviation my entire adult life. I know of one instance where letting go of the controls saved one student pilot who inadvertantly had gotten into a spin while practicing slow flight in a cessna 172. As a student pilot just getting ready for his airman check ride, he had not had spin training, only spoke of spinning and recovery, but one thing the instructor had told this student, "if you get into trouble, chop the throttle and take hands and feet off controls". Well, this student did this and the Cessna recovered. I am a believer in teaching pilots how to fly including spinning. I have never been to a glider operation that did not required students to be proficient at spins.


On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 4:01:06 AM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 5:03:27 PM UTC+13, wrote:
Oh wow! You are an amazing instructor! This is great!

My big question was of the other pilot threw up in his hands? What kind of pilot does that? Is this a joke?

1) those saying "You have control"
2) those saying "Insha Allah" (subset of the above, God is the copilot)

The recreational pilot (Canadian version of LSA pilot) did not throw up 'in his hands', - he threw his hands in the air. And yes, for some aircraft, that is a fix. We use 2-33s for ab initio training, and the technique works in them, but it certainly would not in the 2-32. And for the record, the spin recovery method we teach, subject always to override by instructions in the POH, is 1) full opposite rudder, 2) centralise the stick, 3) pause briefly, 4) lower the nose until the auto-rotation stops, 5) centralise the rudder, and 6) pull out of the dive watching the G's

It was, it would seem, no joke. The thanks was as sincere as it gets.

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 7:30:59 AM UTC-7, Charlie Papa wrote:
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 9:45:53 AM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Have been around aviation my entire adult life. I know of one instance where letting go of the controls saved one student pilot who inadvertantly had gotten into a spin while practicing slow flight in a cessna 172. As a student pilot just getting ready for his airman check ride, he had not had spin training, only spoke of spinning and recovery, but one thing the instructor had told this student, "if you get into trouble, chop the throttle and take hands and feet off controls". Well, this student did this and the Cessna recovered. I am a believer in teaching pilots how to fly including spinning. I have never been to a glider operation that did not required students to be proficient at spins.


On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 4:01:06 AM UTC-7, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 5:03:27 PM UTC+13, wrote:
Oh wow! You are an amazing instructor! This is great!

My big question was of the other pilot threw up in his hands? What kind of pilot does that? Is this a joke?

1) those saying "You have control"
2) those saying "Insha Allah" (subset of the above, God is the copilot)

The recreational pilot (Canadian version of LSA pilot) did not throw up 'in his hands', - he threw his hands in the air. And yes, for some aircraft, that is a fix. We use 2-33s for ab initio training, and the technique works in them, but it certainly would not in the 2-32. And for the record, the spin recovery method we teach, subject always to override by instructions in the POH, is 1) full opposite rudder, 2) centralise the stick, 3) pause briefly, 4) lower the nose until the auto-rotation stops, 5) centralise the rudder, and 6) pull out of the dive watching the G's

It was, it would seem, no joke. The thanks was as sincere as it gets.

All glider student pilots get spin training in the U.S. - it is all other student pilots who don't. There is a very practical reason for this: gliders are flown at speeds and attitudes that make spins very possible. Spins in power planes typically occur at altitudes that are not recoverable (base-to-final turns). I once asked my power instructor to demonstrate a spin entry and recovery; his answer: a flat NO! Ironically, if you do a power-on stall (like during a missed approach simulation) it looks to me very much like a spin entry.

Tom