Hey Dudley, How did the T-Birds get started?

Dudley,

My father (http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad.html) was a member (squadron
leader?) of the west coast precision aerobatic team that was a (the?)
forerunner of the Air Force Thunderbirds (apparently there was also an east
coast team as well - see http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad5.html). If you
look up the history of the Thunderbirds, you find that they were organized
much later, with no mention of any wartime aerobatic teams. Dad's long gone
now, so I can't ask him. Any way to authenticate Dad's claim? Just
curious.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

In article ,
"Bob Chilcoat" wrote:

Dudley,

My father (http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad.html) was a member (squadron
leader?) of the west coast precision aerobatic team that was a (the?)
forerunner of the Air Force Thunderbirds (apparently there was also an east
coast team as well - see http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad5.html). If you
look up the history of the Thunderbirds, you find that they were organized
much later, with no mention of any wartime aerobatic teams. Dad's long gone
now, so I can't ask him. Any way to authenticate Dad's claim? Just
curious.


There was a group called the "Acrojets," which flew F-80s in the late
40s/early '50s. I believe that there was also an F-86 team in the early
'50's, too.

Here is the "History" of the Thunderbirds from their website, which I
referred to above. As you can see, this starts with the first jet team.
What about earlier days?
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


In 1947, while the jet age was still in its infancy, military aviation was
hurtled into the future with the creation of the U.S. Air Force as a
separate service. Just six years later, on May 25, 1953, the Air Force's
official air demonstration team, designated the 3600th Air Demonstration
Unit, was activated at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona.

The name "Thunderbirds" was soon adopted by the unit; influenced in part by
the strong Indian culture and folklore of the southwestern United States
where Luke is located. Indian legend speaks of the Thunderbird with great
fear and respect. To some it was a giant eagle . others envisioned a hawk.
When it took to the skies, the earth trembled from the thunder of its great
wings. From its eyes shot bolts of lightning. Nothing in nature could
challenge the bird of thunder, the story said, and no man could stand
against its might. The story of the Thunderbird was repeated,
voice-by-voice, across the generations, until at last, it assumed the
immortality of legend.

A more appropriate name couldn't have been selected, as it is with the same
commanding presence the Thunderbirds took to the skies.

Seven officers and 22 enlisted were selected for the first demonstration
team, most were handpicked from the cadre at Luke.

Maj. Dick Catledge, a training squadron commander at Luke, was chosen as the
team's leader. Twins Bill and Buck Patillo were selected and would fly left
and right wing, respectively. The Patillo's, both captains, were ideal
choices as both had been with the "SkyBlazers", a USAF/Europe demonstration
team, for the past 3 years. For the difficult position of slot, the position
sandwiched between both wingmen and behind the leader, Capt. Bob Kanaga was
selected, an instructor at Luke. The spare pilot would be Capt. Bob
McCormick. Like the Patillo brothers, he also had demonstration team
experience, having flown right wing with the "Sabre Dancers," a predecessor
to the Thunderbirds. 1st Lt. Aubrey Brown would serve as maintenance officer
for the team. He, with his senior enlisted man, MSgt. Earl Young, selected
21 enlisted men to help maintain the team's aircraft. Capt. Bill Brock was
the final officer selected for the team serving as the information services
officer and team narrator.

From these humble beginnings and this group of men, the Air Force
Thunderbird legend was born.

The first aircraft selected for the new demonstration team was the straight
wing F-84G Thunderjet built by Republic Aviation. Their straight wing
configuration was considered well suited for aerobatic maneuvers, and
although the aircraft could not exceed the speed of sound, like some
military aircraft, it easily met the needs of a demonstration aircraft.

The original demonstration sequence consisted of a series of formation
aerobatics lasting 15 minutes. The spare pilot took-off a few minutes in
advance of the Diamond to run a weather check, advise of any encroaching
traffic, reiterate the location of obstructions and then landed to be used
as a spare aircraft. As the season progressed, the opportunity was utilized
to perform 'solo' maneuvers with the spare aircraft while the Diamond burned
off fuel and repositioned out of sight of the crowd.

Mindful of their mission to show the Air Force's best aircraft, the Air
Force selected the swept wing F-84F Thunderstreak as their second aircraft
in 1955. The Thunderstreak was modified for the team by adding smoke tanks
for the first time, and red, white and blue drag chutes.

With the move from the F-84F to the F-100 Super Sabre in 1956, the
Thunderbirds became the world's first supersonic aerial demonstration team.
That same year, the Thunderbirds moved to Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada,
simplifying logistics and maintenance for the aircraft.

Although never a routine part of the Thunderbird show in 1956, the solo
would fly supersonic at the request of the air show sponsor. Eventually, the
Federal Aviation Authority, a precursor to the Federal Aviation
Administration, banned all supersonic flight at air shows and consequently,
today's sequence is entirely subsonic.

Almost a footnote in the history of Thunderbird aviation, the Republic-built
F-105B Thunderchief performed only six shows between April 26 and May 9,
1964. Extensive modifications to the F-105 were necessary, and rather than
cancel the rest of the show season to accomplish this, the Thunderbirds
quickly transitioned back to the Super Sabre. While the switch back to the
F-100D was supposed to be temporary, the F-105 never returned to the
Thunderbird hangar. The F-100 ended up staying with the team for nearly 13
years.

The Thunderbirds started the 1969 training season still in the F-100Ds, but
in the spring of 1969 the team received the first of the new McDonnell
Douglas F-4E Phantom IIs and began the team's conversion.

The F-4's conversion was the most extensive in the team's history. Among
other modifications, paints that had worked on the F-100 made the F-4 look
patchy because of multicolored alloys used in the F-4 to resist heat and
friction at Mach II speeds. As a result, a polyurethane paint base was
developed and used to cover the problem. The white paint base remains a part
of today's Thunderbird aircraft.

Compared with its predecessors, the F-4 was immense. It was big. It was
heavy. It was powerful. With the earth-shaking roar of eight J-79 engines
from the four diamond aircraft, no demonstration aircraft accomplished the
mission of representing American airpower more impressively than the
Phantom.

1974 brought with it a fuel crisis and as a result a new aircraft for the
team, the sleek, swift and highly maneuverable Northrop T-38A Talon, the Air
Force's first supersonic trainer. Economically, the T-38 was unmatched. Five
T-38s used the same amount of fuel needed for one F-4 Phantom, and fewer
people and less equipment were required to maintain the aircraft.

Although the Talon did not fulfill the Thunderbird tradition of flying
front-line jet fighters, it did meet the criteria of demonstrating the
capabilities of a prominent Air Force aircraft.

The T-38A was used throughout the Air Force during this time period in a
variety of roles because of its design, economy of operation, ease of
maintenance, high performance and exceptional safety record. In fact, Air
Force fighter pilots still use this aircraft during undergraduate pilot
training today.

In honor of the nation's 200th birthday in 1976, the Thunderbirds were
designated as the official United States Bicentennial Organization. For the
Bicentennial year only, the aircraft numbers were moved to the fuselage and
the Bicentennial symbol replaced the numbers on the tail.

In 1983, the team returned to the tradition of flying a premier fighter
aircraft; transitioning to the General Dynamics, later Lockheed Martin's,
F-16A Fighting Falcon. To ready the F-16 involved removing the radar and
internally mounted 20mm cannon and installing a smoke-generating system.

Remaining true to its character to showcase the latest advancement in
America's fighter technology, in 1992 the team transitioned to Lockheed
Martin's advanced F-16C, the team's ninth aircraft. With the team's last
demonstration in the F-16A, the Thunderbirds were the last active duty unit
to use the A model.

The C model looks similar to its predecessor, but has upgraded avionics and
radar systems, making it superior to the A model. A true multi-role fighter,
the F-16C has an unequaled record in actual air-to-air combat.
Additionally, it is the only fighter to win both of the Air Force's premier
competitions - Gunsmoke, air-to-ground and William Tell, air superiority.

The F-16 has remained the choice of the Thunderbirds for the last 20 years,
the longest performance era of any one aircraft. It is a stellar performer
for the Thunderbirds, the U.S. Air Force and the 24 other nations whose
boundaries it patrols and defends.

Hi Bob;

As you have correctly pointed out, the TB's were formed at Luke, and Dick
Catledge, the Patillo twins and Bob Kanaga were the initial team. Dick
pulled heavily on the experience of the Patillos with the old Sky Blazers.
Also, Bill Creech flew with the Blazers and came on board later. He ended up
Tac Commander.
I don't recall a T6 team being any official "forerunner" of the
Thunderbirds, but there were several in existence around 1953.
If you like, both the official Thunderbird historian Carol Knotts and Bob
Gore (ex TB) who just wrote the official history of the team "We Rode The
Thunder" are both good friends of mine. I will be happy to forward to them
any request for information you might have about your father.
Just format something with the information and background they would need to
track things down, mail it to me back channel, and I'll send it off for you.
My back channel email is
"dhenriques"...then you put in the usual sign for "at".......and then you
stick in the name "earthlink".....with the usual "dot".......then stick a
"net" at the end of it.
How's this for email munging??? :-)))
Dudley
"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Dudley,

My father (http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad.html) was a member (squadron
leader?) of the west coast precision aerobatic team that was a (the?)
forerunner of the Air Force Thunderbirds (apparently there was also an
east coast team as well - see http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad5.html).
If you look up the history of the Thunderbirds, you find that they were
organized much later, with no mention of any wartime aerobatic teams.
Dad's long gone now, so I can't ask him. Any way to authenticate Dad's
claim? Just curious.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

Here's a photo for anyone who's interested:
http://home1.gte.net/res0f19c/pics/Mach1F100.jpg
I attended this airshow at Bartow Air Base in Central Florida with my father
who worked for
a civilian contractor at the airbase. This was about 1-and-a-half months
before my 6th birthday
and I vividly remember watching the diamond when the solo surprised the
crowd with the boom (at
a very low altitude if I remember well enough. I seem to have the memory
that it was just off the deck
because when I turned to look at the solo I saw it pitched up and arcing
skywards. I have always thought
that this was the last airshow where they were allowed to fly supersonic.
(at least in the continental US.)
Can anyone verify or refute this? There was some damage to windows, etc. on
the base and in the
surrounding residential areas. I also remember hearing about some woman
dropping her baby onto the
tarmac. Also, the pilot mentioned in the article is, I believe, the same
"Pogue" who later became an
astronaut. I've always thought that this was the most beautiful jet in the
AF. It just looks like a jet is supposed to look!
,Tony P.

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Here is the "History" of the Thunderbirds from their website, which I
referred to above. As you can see, this starts with the first jet team.
What about earlier days?
--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


In 1947, while the jet age was still in its infancy, military aviation was
hurtled into the future with the creation of the U.S. Air Force as a
separate service. Just six years later, on May 25, 1953, the Air Force's
official air demonstration team, designated the 3600th Air Demonstration
Unit, was activated at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona.

The name "Thunderbirds" was soon adopted by the unit; influenced in part
by
the strong Indian culture and folklore of the southwestern United States
where Luke is located. Indian legend speaks of the Thunderbird with great
fear and respect. To some it was a giant eagle . others envisioned a hawk.
When it took to the skies, the earth trembled from the thunder of its
great
wings. From its eyes shot bolts of lightning. Nothing in nature could
challenge the bird of thunder, the story said, and no man could stand
against its might. The story of the Thunderbird was repeated,
voice-by-voice, across the generations, until at last, it assumed the
immortality of legend.

A more appropriate name couldn't have been selected, as it is with the
same
commanding presence the Thunderbirds took to the skies.

Seven officers and 22 enlisted were selected for the first demonstration
team, most were handpicked from the cadre at Luke.

Maj. Dick Catledge, a training squadron commander at Luke, was chosen as
the
team's leader. Twins Bill and Buck Patillo were selected and would fly
left
and right wing, respectively. The Patillo's, both captains, were ideal
choices as both had been with the "SkyBlazers", a USAF/Europe
demonstration
team, for the past 3 years. For the difficult position of slot, the
position
sandwiched between both wingmen and behind the leader, Capt. Bob Kanaga
was
selected, an instructor at Luke. The spare pilot would be Capt. Bob
McCormick. Like the Patillo brothers, he also had demonstration team
experience, having flown right wing with the "Sabre Dancers," a
predecessor
to the Thunderbirds. 1st Lt. Aubrey Brown would serve as maintenance
officer
for the team. He, with his senior enlisted man, MSgt. Earl Young, selected
21 enlisted men to help maintain the team's aircraft. Capt. Bill Brock was
the final officer selected for the team serving as the information
services
officer and team narrator.

From these humble beginnings and this group of men, the Air Force
Thunderbird legend was born.

The first aircraft selected for the new demonstration team was the
straight
wing F-84G Thunderjet built by Republic Aviation. Their straight wing
configuration was considered well suited for aerobatic maneuvers, and
although the aircraft could not exceed the speed of sound, like some
military aircraft, it easily met the needs of a demonstration aircraft.

The original demonstration sequence consisted of a series of formation
aerobatics lasting 15 minutes. The spare pilot took-off a few minutes in
advance of the Diamond to run a weather check, advise of any encroaching
traffic, reiterate the location of obstructions and then landed to be used
as a spare aircraft. As the season progressed, the opportunity was
utilized
to perform 'solo' maneuvers with the spare aircraft while the Diamond
burned
off fuel and repositioned out of sight of the crowd.

Mindful of their mission to show the Air Force's best aircraft, the Air
Force selected the swept wing F-84F Thunderstreak as their second aircraft
in 1955. The Thunderstreak was modified for the team by adding smoke tanks
for the first time, and red, white and blue drag chutes.

With the move from the F-84F to the F-100 Super Sabre in 1956, the
Thunderbirds became the world's first supersonic aerial demonstration
team.
That same year, the Thunderbirds moved to Nellis Air Force Base, Nevada,
simplifying logistics and maintenance for the aircraft.

Although never a routine part of the Thunderbird show in 1956, the solo
would fly supersonic at the request of the air show sponsor. Eventually,
the
Federal Aviation Authority, a precursor to the Federal Aviation
Administration, banned all supersonic flight at air shows and
consequently,
today's sequence is entirely subsonic.

Almost a footnote in the history of Thunderbird aviation, the
Republic-built
F-105B Thunderchief performed only six shows between April 26 and May 9,
1964. Extensive modifications to the F-105 were necessary, and rather than
cancel the rest of the show season to accomplish this, the Thunderbirds
quickly transitioned back to the Super Sabre. While the switch back to the
F-100D was supposed to be temporary, the F-105 never returned to the
Thunderbird hangar. The F-100 ended up staying with the team for nearly 13
years.

The Thunderbirds started the 1969 training season still in the F-100Ds,
but
in the spring of 1969 the team received the first of the new McDonnell
Douglas F-4E Phantom IIs and began the team's conversion.

The F-4's conversion was the most extensive in the team's history. Among
other modifications, paints that had worked on the F-100 made the F-4 look
patchy because of multicolored alloys used in the F-4 to resist heat and
friction at Mach II speeds. As a result, a polyurethane paint base was
developed and used to cover the problem. The white paint base remains a
part
of today's Thunderbird aircraft.

Compared with its predecessors, the F-4 was immense. It was big. It was
heavy. It was powerful. With the earth-shaking roar of eight J-79 engines
from the four diamond aircraft, no demonstration aircraft accomplished the
mission of representing American airpower more impressively than the
Phantom.

1974 brought with it a fuel crisis and as a result a new aircraft for the
team, the sleek, swift and highly maneuverable Northrop T-38A Talon, the
Air
Force's first supersonic trainer. Economically, the T-38 was unmatched.
Five
T-38s used the same amount of fuel needed for one F-4 Phantom, and fewer
people and less equipment were required to maintain the aircraft.

Although the Talon did not fulfill the Thunderbird tradition of flying
front-line jet fighters, it did meet the criteria of demonstrating the
capabilities of a prominent Air Force aircraft.

The T-38A was used throughout the Air Force during this time period in a
variety of roles because of its design, economy of operation, ease of
maintenance, high performance and exceptional safety record. In fact, Air
Force fighter pilots still use this aircraft during undergraduate pilot
training today.

In honor of the nation's 200th birthday in 1976, the Thunderbirds were
designated as the official United States Bicentennial Organization. For
the
Bicentennial year only, the aircraft numbers were moved to the fuselage
and
the Bicentennial symbol replaced the numbers on the tail.

In 1983, the team returned to the tradition of flying a premier fighter
aircraft; transitioning to the General Dynamics, later Lockheed Martin's,
F-16A Fighting Falcon. To ready the F-16 involved removing the radar and
internally mounted 20mm cannon and installing a smoke-generating system.

Remaining true to its character to showcase the latest advancement in
America's fighter technology, in 1992 the team transitioned to Lockheed
Martin's advanced F-16C, the team's ninth aircraft. With the team's last
demonstration in the F-16A, the Thunderbirds were the last active duty
unit
to use the A model.

The C model looks similar to its predecessor, but has upgraded avionics
and
radar systems, making it superior to the A model. A true multi-role
fighter,
the F-16C has an unequaled record in actual air-to-air combat.
Additionally, it is the only fighter to win both of the Air Force's
premier
competitions - Gunsmoke, air-to-ground and William Tell, air superiority.

The F-16 has remained the choice of the Thunderbirds for the last 20
years,
the longest performance era of any one aircraft. It is a stellar performer
for the Thunderbirds, the U.S. Air Force and the 24 other nations whose
boundaries it patrols and defends.

and I vividly remember watching the diamond when the solo surprised the
crowd with the boom (at
a very low altitude if I remember well enough. I seem to have the memory
that it was just off the deck
because when I turned to look at the solo I saw it pitched up and arcing
skywards. I have always thought
that this was the last airshow where they were allowed to fly supersonic.

That's cool. Man, I wish they could still do that today!

I spent a couple of weeks at my grandparent's home in Bakersfield, CA during
the heyday of supersonic flight testing at Edwards. (1961 and 1963, to be
precise) Every day we'd see/hear (mostly hear) the X-15 go over, and the
sonic booms.

Call me crazy, but I *liked* the sound. So did my grandparents! (My
grandmother worked on-base.)

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:31:22 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:


That's cool. Man, I wish they could still do that today!

I spent a couple of weeks at my grandparent's home in Bakersfield, CA during
the heyday of supersonic flight testing at Edwards. (1961 and 1963, to be
precise) Every day we'd see/hear (mostly hear) the X-15 go over, and the
sonic booms.

Call me crazy, but I *liked* the sound. So did my grandparents! (My
grandmother worked on-base.)

:-)

I guess I was just lucky to live in Tennessee at the right time.

You could actually see the shock wave coming when someone was
supersonic. It looked like a (I'm at a loss for words here so I'll
use my own old phrase) shimmera. It was just a glint in the air, but
you could definately see it coming. Most of the planes were pretty
high up, so you could only hear one boom. We could see the plane, and
at my age then, it was just sort of a learning experience.

My son, when we went to an airshow with the Thunderbirds, would beg
one of them to go supersonic.

When I get around to it, I'll put a couple of pictures on my web site
with the F-100s and F-4s.

Mike Weller

In a previous article, "Jay Honeck" said:
skywards. I have always thought
that this was the last airshow where they were allowed to fly supersonic.

That's cool. Man, I wish they could still do that today!

I'm pretty sure that planes went supersonic at low level at the air show
at the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition) in Toronto when I was a kid. I
remember some amazing demos at that show over the years - Luftwaffe F-4s
and RAF Vulcans and Concorde and SR-71s and water bombers dropping water
on burning rafts out on the water. The most amazing one was the two
Harriers that went streaking by, then stopped, did 180 degree turns in the
hover, flew slowly by show center, then stopped and flew BACKWARDS by show
center, then streaked by forward again.



--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Speed is life, altitude is life insurance. No one has ever collided with
the sky.

When the Space Shuttles were flying regularly we would hear the
characteristic double boom
as they passed over central Fla on the way to the Cape. When you heard
the booms in Lakeland you had just enough time to get to a TV to watch the
landing
125 miles away.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:eghQe.313275$xm3.176293@attbi_s21...
and I vividly remember watching the diamond when the solo surprised the
crowd with the boom (at
a very low altitude if I remember well enough. I seem to have the memory
that it was just off the deck
because when I turned to look at the solo I saw it pitched up and arcing
skywards. I have always thought
that this was the last airshow where they were allowed to fly
supersonic.

That's cool. Man, I wish they could still do that today!

I spent a couple of weeks at my grandparent's home in Bakersfield, CA
during
the heyday of supersonic flight testing at Edwards. (1961 and 1963, to
be
precise) Every day we'd see/hear (mostly hear) the X-15 go over, and the
sonic booms.

Call me crazy, but I *liked* the sound. So did my grandparents! (My
grandmother worked on-base.)

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Bob Chilcoat wrote:

My father (http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad.html) was a member (squadron
leader?) of the west coast precision aerobatic team that was a (the?)
forerunner of the Air Force Thunderbirds (apparently there was also an east
coast team as well - see http://geocities.com/viewptmd/Dad5.html).

Your dad's claim is likely. Immediately following WWII, the Navy set up several
squadrons with orders to barnstorm across the country and perform airshows. The
idea was to make money to pay for the return of all the Navy personnel who were
overseas at the end of the war. I would bet the USAAF did something similar for
the same reasons.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.