Hurricane relief

"Happy Dog" wrote in message
...
My references to welfare cases did not disparage the entire group nor did
I refer to them as one nor do I think that the majority are social
leeches. I referred to a subset of from whom I would expect the observed
behavior.

If that was your intent, then your sentiment was indeed less extreme than
your original phrasing (asking rhetorically, "what should you expect" from
welfare recipients?) suggested.

But even if you merely meant to suggest that receiving welfare payments
caused an elevated level of violence in a *minute fraction* of recipients in
N.O., your assertion is still unfairly issued without any
foundation--indeed, without even any *attempt* to provide a foundation. You
have not even shown that there *is* a higher level of violence in N.O. than
in other dire emergencies in the world in which civil authority collapsed
(in the absence of any history of welfare support)--let alone showing that
welfare support is the *cause* of the supposedly higher level of violence in
N.O.

For what it's worth, I think a much more plausible speculation (but only a
speculation) about the social policies underlying the violence is that it's
partly fallout from drug prohibition. The most combat-like violence in N.O.
seems to be coming from the organized criminal gangs. And we know from our
alcohol-prohibition era that such prohibitions readily promote runaway
organized crime that can ravage cities with violence even in the absence of
widespread disasters. (Or do you attribute the rise of the Mafia to welfare
payments, too?)

--Gary

In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

For what it's worth, I think a much more plausible speculation (but only a
speculation) about the social policies underlying the violence is that it's
partly fallout from drug prohibition. The most combat-like violence in N.O.
seems to be coming from the organized criminal gangs. And we know from our
alcohol-prohibition era that such prohibitions readily promote runaway
organized crime that can ravage cities with violence even in the absence of
widespread disasters.

I don't believe prohibitions cause or promote organized crime. The
prohibitions create demand for a product, but organized crime is not
dependent on the prohibition - organized crime will find *something*
even if it has to create it (e.g., "protection").

But at least we can agree that criminal gangs seem to be a primary
source of the violence in New Orleans - even if we can't agree on the
underlying cause(s).

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

For what it's worth, I think a much more plausible speculation (but only
a
speculation) about the social policies underlying the violence is that
it's
partly fallout from drug prohibition. The most combat-like violence in
N.O.
seems to be coming from the organized criminal gangs. And we know from
our
alcohol-prohibition era that such prohibitions readily promote runaway
organized crime that can ravage cities with violence even in the absence
of
widespread disasters.

I don't believe prohibitions cause or promote organized crime. The
prohibitions create demand for a product, but organized crime is not
dependent on the prohibition - organized crime will find *something*
even if it has to create it (e.g., "protection").

Prohibited alcohol and other drugs are an especially lucrative source of
illegal income. That they are not the *only* source does not imply that they
don't significantly fuel the rise of violent gangs.

--Gary

Happy Dog wrote:

But I yanked my cable on 9/12/1.

They had a ratings war in 1980. I chased my favorite shows (like WKRP) through
the different time slots. The next year, I started graduate school, which left
me little time for television. I just never got back into the habit.

And it is a habit. I know me, and I will sit down and watch anything if there's
a TV going in the room. Now, I deliberately avoid it.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Dan Luke wrote:

What makes me want to weep is the number of my fellow citizens who fall
for this crap. People seem to yearn to have their prejudices stroked,
and select their information sources accordingly, so that they are not
confronted with anything that might-God forbid-cause them to have to
rethink their views of the world.

I like P.J. O'Roarke's take on this. He's conservative. He listens to things
like NPR. He says there's no reason for him to just listen to people who think
just like he does.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

Prohibited alcohol and other drugs are an especially lucrative source of
illegal income.

true.

That they are not the *only* source does not imply that they
don't significantly fuel the rise of violent gangs.

Are you saying that making drugs legal would be a net benefit
to society?

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

Prohibited alcohol and other drugs are an especially lucrative source of
illegal income.

true.

That they are not the *only* source does not imply that they
don't significantly fuel the rise of violent gangs.

Are you saying that making drugs legal would be a net benefit
to society?

Aren't we off-topic enough already without launching *that* debate?

--Gary

In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:

Are you saying that making drugs legal would be a net benefit
to society?

Aren't we off-topic enough already without launching *that* debate?

way more than enough.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
They shouldn't. The sad part of this is that many folks in the media
and politics are claiming that race is playing a role. I find that hard
to believe, but I don't live anywhere near NO so who knows. I don't
think it is at the federal level which is what the claims have mainly
been as Bush clearly did his part even BEFORE the storm hit. I don't
know what else they expected Bush to do without a request from the
governor.

The mayor of New Orleans says the governor of Louisiana hesitated to pull
the trigger on Federal aid for 24 hours.

With all the blame flying around, I am amazed that the state and local
governments have escaped it thus far. It is my opinion that this is where
the majority of the blame should reside, at least in New Orleans.

The folks fanning the racial flames ought to be downright ashamed of
themselves too. They didn't help things one little bit. Hull of a slave ship
indeed. Reverend Jackson is such a uniter and healer. Someone asked him if
he would make the same comment if the refugees were white. I thought that
was funny. I don't remember his response, but it was funny to me because he
wouldn't *be there* if they were white.

It is pretty simple. Huge hurricane + unprepared vulnerable area +
incompetent local government = HUGE disaster. I can't see where race enters
into it. I can see where socio-economic class does though, but the race
issue is a red herrring in this situation.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

"Trent Moorehead" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
They shouldn't. The sad part of this is that many folks in the media
and politics are claiming that race is playing a role. I find that hard
to believe, but I don't live anywhere near NO so who knows. I don't
think it is at the federal level which is what the claims have mainly
been as Bush clearly did his part even BEFORE the storm hit. I don't
know what else they expected Bush to do without a request from the
governor.

The mayor of New Orleans says the governor of Louisiana hesitated to pull
the trigger on Federal aid for 24 hours.

With all the blame flying around, I am amazed that the state and local
governments have escaped it thus far. It is my opinion that this is where
the majority of the blame should reside, at least in New Orleans.

The folks fanning the racial flames ought to be downright ashamed of
themselves too. They didn't help things one little bit. Hull of a slave
ship
indeed. Reverend Jackson is such a uniter and healer. Someone asked him if
he would make the same comment if the refugees were white. I thought that
was funny. I don't remember his response, but it was funny to me because
he
wouldn't *be there* if they were white.

Just remember, if there are no more race relations problems Jesse is out of
a job and out of the TV spotlight. He has no incentive to fix anything.
Making things worse suits him just fine. Spend some time in his home town
if you want real insight into his antics. Often those claiming to be the
uniters and healers are at the top of the racist heap.