WW II - Diesel birds?

Sorry for jumping in late - I'm replying to Bill Kambic, too.
(No Offence, Bill, Finger Trouble on my part)

Gord Beaman wrote:

wrote:

On Tue, 31 May 2005 04:35:22 GMT, Gord Beaman
wrote:

"R Leonard" wrote:

And for what it's worth, there were even diesel model airplane
engines,
at least in the years immediately after WWII. I've a couple of
flying model airplanes my father built in the 1946 to 1950 period
so equipped.


Rich

Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.

I had 'em, too. They did function on the same principle as diesels,
but were powered by a form of gasoline. They were not powered by
diesel fuel.

Model Airplane Glow Fuel is usually Methanol, with something (Usually
Castor Oil) added to make it lubricate better. High performance
fuels used to have Nitromethane added in as well. I don't know if
they still do that.

AFAIK, the model diesels did run on kerosene.
I've never run one, but I've seen a couple. Neat little widgets.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between them and a glow engine
in construction, save for the head. Instead of a glow plug, they've
got a screw that adjusts an opposing "piston", allowing you to change
the combustion chamber volume and therefore the compression ratio.




Yes, thanks Bill...I knew that they didn't use diesel fuel,
smells much more potent to me...someone mentioned here that they
use the heated filament as a hot-spot for ignition (for the
running phase) rather than compression heat (as in a true diesel)
which makes sense.

That's the way I understand it. The glow plug's wire must not
transfer heat to the head very well.



--
Pete Stickney
Java Man knew nothing about coffee.

In article ,
Peter Stickney wrote:

(snip)
Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.

I had 'em, too. They did function on the same principle as diesels,
but were powered by a form of gasoline. They were not powered by
diesel fuel.

Model Airplane Glow Fuel is usually Methanol, with something (Usually
Castor Oil) added to make it lubricate better. High performance
fuels used to have Nitromethane added in as well. I don't know if
they still do that.

AFAIK, the model diesels did run on kerosene.
I've never run one, but I've seen a couple. Neat little widgets.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between them and a glow engine
in construction, save for the head. Instead of a glow plug, they've
got a screw that adjusts an opposing "piston", allowing you to change
the combustion chamber volume and therefore the compression ratio.

I had a model Diesel in the late 1950's. It did not run on kerosene, but
ether, with castor oil as a lubricant. They were a true Diesel, as they
did not have a glow plug or any other external source of ignition.

The glow plug engines used methanol/castor oil with nitromethane as a
kicker. I used to make some homebrew fuels for the glow plug engines
with methanol/castor oil. It worked but needed the nitromethane to make
the engines run well.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
Peter Stickney wrote:

(snip)
Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.

I had 'em, too. They did function on the same principle as diesels,
but were powered by a form of gasoline. They were not powered by
diesel fuel.

Model Airplane Glow Fuel is usually Methanol, with something (Usually
Castor Oil) added to make it lubricate better. High performance
fuels used to have Nitromethane added in as well. I don't know if
they still do that.

AFAIK, the model diesels did run on kerosene.
I've never run one, but I've seen a couple. Neat little widgets.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between them and a glow engine
in construction, save for the head. Instead of a glow plug, they've
got a screw that adjusts an opposing "piston", allowing you to change
the combustion chamber volume and therefore the compression ratio.

I had a model Diesel in the late 1950's. It did not run on kerosene, but
ether, with castor oil as a lubricant. They were a true Diesel, as they
did not have a glow plug or any other external source of ignition.

The glow plug engines used methanol/castor oil with nitromethane as a
kicker. I used to make some homebrew fuels for the glow plug engines
with methanol/castor oil. It worked but needed the nitromethane to make
the engines run well.

A funny story...while in the Air Force (way back) I had a little
Arden (forget the size now). It was mounted on a small
free-flight model. One of the guys who wasn't familiar with them
was looking it over, he commented that "that tiny engine doesn't
look big enough to power that model", so I bet him $20 that if I
started it he wouldn't stick his finger into the prop...I'm sure
that he pictured the engine 'put-putting' along and the prop sort
of ticking over...long story short, I started it...he paid
instantly...those things engendered lots of respect. I wonder how
much they actually did put out?
--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

Peter Stickney wrote in message ...
snip

The Soviet Pe-8 heavy bomber also was originally Diesel powered.
During the summer of 1941, they launched a dozen or so of them on a
raid on Berlin. I don't think any got back to their original base -
they all force landed due to engine failures.


The failure of their M-40 diesel engines sent their designer to the labour camp... and
success of M-30 back from it! (well, it was a kind of success :-)

The "success" was the other diesel-powered bomber. That was Ermolayev Er-2 which used
various diesels, M-30 and M-30b (later ACh-30b) being most sucessful. Long-range,
twin-engined, twin-tailed aircraft with gull wings was made in small series with various
aircraft engines (almost all available except radials!) troughout the war. Its latest
version, with ACh-30b diesels, actually beat Il-4 in trials and was used until the end of
the war (and developed after the war!). However, there was always the production quality
problem of the diesels built in small series, and the Chief Designer died from meningitis
in 1944.

Nele

NULLA ROSA SINE SPINA

There was a Guiberson radial aircooled diesel engine prior to WW2. I
understand some were used in the US Army's light tanks. After teh war a
lot of thyem were used in Southern California orange groves. They were
mounted on stout poles and they spun props to prevent cold air from
pooling in the groves.
Also, I read that the Ju86 diesel engines were fine when set at a
constant RPM setting but the continual variance while flying formation
cut the engine life drastically - so that was that for the diesel
engine. Contrastingly, it did good service in the BV238 on ocean patrol
duties, where the low fuel consumption paid dividends.
Anybody know anything about the European development of a diesel for
light aircraft?
Walt BJ

wrote in message
ups.com...
There was a Guiberson radial aircooled diesel engine prior to WW2. I
understand some were used in the US Army's light tanks. After teh war a
lot of thyem were used in Southern California orange groves. They were
mounted on stout poles and they spun props to prevent cold air from
pooling in the groves.
Also, I read that the Ju86 diesel engines were fine when set at a
constant RPM setting but the continual variance while flying formation
cut the engine life drastically - so that was that for the diesel
engine. Contrastingly, it did good service in the BV238 on ocean patrol
duties, where the low fuel consumption paid dividends.
Anybody know anything about the European development of a diesel for
light aircraft?
Walt BJ

The first time I went to March AFB TDY (1964?) there were still some of the
engines mounted on poles in groves on University Avenue which runs between
downtown and the University. Most of the locals still called it 8th Avenue,
its former name.

Tex

On 3 Jun 2005 19:02:55 -0700, wrote:

Anybody know anything about the European development of a diesel for
light aircraft?

There is one modern company in Austria producing them. Go to
http://www.diamondair.com/contentc/TwinFlies.htm

Bill Kambic

"Gord Beaman" wrote in message
news
Orval Fairbairn wrote:

In article ,
Peter Stickney wrote:

(snip)
Sure...aren't most model a/c engines Diesel?...I've had several
way back when I was young...(in the fifties) they all had
glo-plugs for starting and none had an ignition system...mine
were all two stroke cycle Diesels... much simpler.

I had 'em, too. They did function on the same principle as diesels,
but were powered by a form of gasoline. They were not powered by
diesel fuel.

Model Airplane Glow Fuel is usually Methanol, with something (Usually
Castor Oil) added to make it lubricate better. High performance
fuels used to have Nitromethane added in as well. I don't know if
they still do that.

AFAIK, the model diesels did run on kerosene.
I've never run one, but I've seen a couple. Neat little widgets.
There isn't a whole lot of difference between them and a glow engine
in construction, save for the head. Instead of a glow plug, they've
got a screw that adjusts an opposing "piston", allowing you to change
the combustion chamber volume and therefore the compression ratio.

I had a model Diesel in the late 1950's. It did not run on kerosene, but
ether, with castor oil as a lubricant. They were a true Diesel, as they
did not have a glow plug or any other external source of ignition.

The glow plug engines used methanol/castor oil with nitromethane as a
kicker. I used to make some homebrew fuels for the glow plug engines
with methanol/castor oil. It worked but needed the nitromethane to make
the engines run well.

A funny story...while in the Air Force (way back) I had a little
Arden (forget the size now). It was mounted on a small
free-flight model. One of the guys who wasn't familiar with them
was looking it over, he commented that "that tiny engine doesn't
look big enough to power that model", so I bet him $20 that if I
started it he wouldn't stick his finger into the prop...I'm sure
that he pictured the engine 'put-putting' along and the prop sort
of ticking over...long story short, I started it...he paid
instantly...those things engendered lots of respect. I wonder how
much they actually did put out?
--

I had one of those Ardens, that I think was an .049? Anyway, some company
made a Diesel "conversion" head for it that ran on ether and castor oil mix.
(you mixed your own to taste). Anyhow, since it didn't use a true Diesel's
injection system, some nick-named it a "compression-ignition" class. The
Arden's conversion head's compression ratio was adjusted by varying the
number of foil thin layers in the head gasket. Too many and it wouldn't
fire, too few and it would run like a banshee but blow no wind! The darn
thing reversed rotation every time it fired. Usually it quit then when it
knocked the prop nut loose when firing the wrong direction. I'll bet there
are lots of you know exactly what I'm talking about.
And then there was the GHQ which never ran. But that is getting a bit
tooooooo far from topic.
Old Chief Lynn

"Lynn Coffelt" wrote:
snip

I had one of those Ardens, that I think was an .049? Anyway, some company
made a Diesel "conversion" head for it that ran on ether and castor oil mix.
(you mixed your own to taste). Anyhow, since it didn't use a true Diesel's
injection system, some nick-named it a "compression-ignition" class. The
Arden's conversion head's compression ratio was adjusted by varying the
number of foil thin layers in the head gasket. Too many and it wouldn't
fire, too few and it would run like a banshee but blow no wind! The darn
thing reversed rotation every time it fired. Usually it quit then when it
knocked the prop nut loose when firing the wrong direction. I'll bet there
are lots of you know exactly what I'm talking about.
And then there was the GHQ which never ran. But that is getting a bit
tooooooo far from topic.
Old Chief Lynn

Yes...049 sounds familiar...I remember the name Arden because it
was so easy to start...much easier than several others that I
had. I even had one that used spark ignition...very
temperamental. My right index finger still smarts from getting
whacked during starts when I got overconfident and disrespectful
of that little prop...fun though...
--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

Yes...049 sounds familiar...I remember the name Arden because it
was so easy to start...much easier than several others that I
had. I even had one that used spark ignition...very
temperamental. My right index finger still smarts from getting
whacked during starts when I got overconfident and disrespectful
of that little prop...fun though...

The GHQ came with a cast aluminum 14" (fairly low pitch) prop. Now that
thing left a couple of achey joints on that finger that haven't improved
much in the last 60 years. I can feel your pain, Gord!
Old Chief Lynn



-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"