Alternate same as departure?

Steven Barnes wrote:
Aren't alternates also used by ATC for lost comm fun?

ATC has no clue as to what your alternate is.

On 7 Dec 2004 12:17:31 -0800, "Michael"
wrote:

Whenever I make a business trip from Houston to Austin when the weather
is iffy in Austin but not in Houston, I file my alternate back in
Houston. If I can't get in at Austin, it does me no good to get in
somewhere 50 miles away with no arrangements for ground transport. I'm
going to miss my meeting anyway, so I might as well turn around and go
home.

Michael


So what difference does it make what your alternate is?

If you want to go back to Houston, you go back to Houston, whether
your alternate is Houston, New Orleans or Hong Kong.

You don't have to go to your alternate if you don't wnat to, ever.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
"Brien K. Meehan" wrote:

I've also tried to file flight plans with the alternate the same as the
departure, and they wouldn't take it. I didn't argue, and just gave
another nearby alternate (e.g. DET instead of PTK).

This one I just don't understand. What alternate you file has
absolutely no impact for ATC. It's a regulatory obligation that the
pilot has to comply with to be legal. There's no reason at all that FSS
or ATC should give a rats ass what your alternate is, and for an FSS guy
to refuse to accept your stated alternate is absurd. I'd have told the
guy to just enter the flight plan the way I read it to him.

When I file I'll give them the flight plan first without the alternate, then
listen to the briefing, and use that to figure out whether I need an
alternate and what the best one is. Most of the time I need to remind them
not to hang up on me after they finish giving me the weather. Most of the
time I'm filing with Bridgeport.

-cwk.

wrote in message ...


I know of an operator who operates a Gulfstream 5 on a regular basis from
LAX to HNL. During the winter when the weather is really churning in the
islands with a tropical convergence and all that brings, he files LAX as
his alternate.

Wow. Talk about the mother of all 180 degree turns!

-cwk.

In article . net,
C Kingsbury wrote:

wrote in message ...


I know of an operator who operates a Gulfstream 5 on a regular basis from
LAX to HNL. During the winter when the weather is really churning in the
islands with a tropical convergence and all that brings, he files LAX as
his alternate.

Wow. Talk about the mother of all 180 degree turns!

Doesn't hold a candle to Apollo 13.

iYou don't have to go to your alternate if you don't wnat to,
ever./i

True. But why bother with working out your actual Plan B, making sure
fuel and weather are going to be OK for it - and then filing something
else? I generally make it a point to file as my alternate what I
really intend to use, unless legalities prevent me from doing so.
Michael

On 7 Dec 2004 14:39:26 -0800, "Michael"
wrote:

iYou don't have to go to your alternate if you don't wnat to,
ever./i

True. But why bother with working out your actual Plan B, making sure
fuel and weather are going to be OK for it - and then filing something
else? I generally make it a point to file as my alternate what I
really intend to use, unless legalities prevent me from doing so.
Michael

You said this:

"Whenever I make a business trip from Houston to Austin when the
weather is iffy in Austin but not in Houston, I file my alternate back
in Houston. If I can't get in at Austin, it does me no good to get in
somewhere 50 miles away with no arrangements for ground transport"


implying that you would be stuck going "fifty miles away" just because
it was filed as an alternate.

This isn't true, and maybe it wasn't what you intended to suggest.
You could go back to Houston regardless.

If you intended to say that it saved the trouble of a separate flight
plan to a different alternate to compute fuel requirements, I agree.

Roy Smith wrote:
Technically, they should let you do that, but I'm sure there's some
operational reason why it's easier on ATC to have two distinct flight

plans, so I'm willing to go with the flow on this. The pilot and ATC

need to act as a team for things to work efficiently. If one team
member says, "please just do it my way" and it's no big deal to
comply,
there's no reason to get bent out of shape over it.

I think the briefer said that Detroit Approach requested or required
them to make a distinct plan for flights crossing their border, even if
you're not landing. If I'd go PTK-FNT-PTK, Flint would give me a new
clearance and new squawk code when I was done with the practice
approaches.

So, maybe that wouldn't apply to 3BS-LAN, but it would to 3BS-PTK. Hmm.

wrote:



I've also tried to file flight plans with the alternate the same as the
departure, and they wouldn't take it. I didn't argue, and just gave
another nearby alternate (e.g. DET instead of PTK).


They have no basis to refuse to take it. The alternate airport doesn't
even get processed into the system beyond the originating FSS.

I know of an operator who operates a Gulfstream 5 on a regular basis from
LAX to HNL. During the winter when the weather is really churning in the
islands with a tropical convergence and all that brings, he files LAX as
his alternate. Experience has shown that operator that since they can
carry the fuel it is sometimes better to turn around should things be
nastier than forecast when they arrive in the area over there.


A G5 can really fly from LAX to HNL back to LAX and still fly for 45
minutes more?

Matt

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1102448212.183819@sj-nntpcache-5...
Steven Barnes wrote:
Aren't alternates also used by ATC for lost comm fun? In radar
environments,
it's probably not as big of a deal. But when not in radar, if you miss
at
your destination, ATC has a pretty good idea where you're headed next if
you
listed an alternate. Or at least where you said you would head if things
didn't work out at the destination.

Nope, ATC doesn't even know what you filed as an alternate. It's not on
the
flight progress strip. DGB

Really. Well, other than making you think about what could go wrong and
providing more to learn for students, what is it actually used for? (or was
that the original question in this thread...)