Registration Airplane or Motorglider

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in
news:419843f4$1@darkstar:

Section 1.1

Light-sport aircraft means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or
powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to
meet the following:

(1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than--
(ii) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for
operation on water...

(3) A maximum never-exceed speed (Vne) of not more than
120 knots CAS for a glider.

Perhaps BeaglePig was quoting:

(2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous
power (Vh) of not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric
conditions at sea level.

which does apply to LSA other than gliders...

Unfortunately the synopses of LSA and SP put out by EAA and others,
as well as even the summarized FAA brochure, omit the special glider
Vne LSA definition, so it is easy to become misled...


--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd


You're right, I had no idea of the differing requirement for Sport Pilot
gliders.

IMHO, there is no reason to get a "sport pilot" lic for gliders or
motorgliders. There is absolutely NOTHING gained, and much lost. A
regular glider licence has no night flight restrictions, no altitude
restriction, and most importantly, if you happen to loose your Drivers
License, even for something not related to your health, you can still
fly.

I'm a big proponent of Sport Pilot, and even of S-LSA or E-LSA gliders,
but for someone to choose to get a Sport Pilot-glider lic. would be
foolish (you can still fly LSA gliders with a reg glider lic)

BeaglePig

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:419853c3$1@darkstar...

As far as I can tell, there are absolutely no downsides
to certifying a glider as LSA instead of another option (with one caveat).
The caveat is that if the glider can have or has a standard
airworthiness certificate (like a 2-22 or 2-33), downgrading this
to an LSA airworthiness certificate may increase the insurance or
reduce the value of the glider during subsequent sale (if the
new buyer isn't confident in the decreased maint. standards).


If I understand the LSA certification correctly, (big if) there is one other
big disadvantage and is the 10,000 ASL altitude limit. For those of us
living in high country, that's a problem.

Bill Daniels

"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
news:Ef4md.90244$HA.34217@attbi_s01...

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:419853c3$1@darkstar...

As far as I can tell, there are absolutely no downsides
to certifying a glider as LSA instead of another option (with one
caveat).
The caveat is that if the glider can have or has a standard
airworthiness certificate (like a 2-22 or 2-33), downgrading this
to an LSA airworthiness certificate may increase the insurance or
reduce the value of the glider during subsequent sale (if the
new buyer isn't confident in the decreased maint. standards).


If I understand the LSA certification correctly, (big if) there is one
other
big disadvantage and is the 10,000 ASL altitude limit. For those of us
living in high country, that's a problem.

Bill Daniels

In looking over the regs, it does not appear that the LSA has this limit
unless it's contained in the 'Aircraft Operating Instructions', but the SP
operating the LSA does. IOW, with a private glider pilot rating, the
altitude restriction doesn't apply. UL pilots are also authorized above
10000msl. However, in response to the comments made to SP NPRM about
removing the 10,000msl limit, several of the supporting comments for
rejection made by the FAA had to do with use of O2, size of the aircraft
mixing with larger airframes, visibility, and so on, but were blended with
the training level of the SP. I think the spirit and intent was that SP
will not operate above 10000msl at all and the FAA removed the 2000agl band
above 10000msl after the comment period.

There is potential for SSA to play in the LSA arena of inspection and
maintenance, similar to the BGA model, for recreational/training type
gliders. The higher VNe racing gliders won't fit. Unless there was a
change, FAA won't require or permit recertification of existing aircraft,
only fat ultralights will become ELSA's. Gliders fitting the definition
could be originally certified as LSA's, but downgrading, at least as
originally proposed, was not an option. Perhaps this changed following the
comment period? If not, the initial market for inspectors and maintainers
will be pretty limited.

Frank Whiteley

BeaglePig wrote:

IMHO, there is no reason to get a "sport pilot" lic for gliders or
motorgliders. There is absolutely NOTHING gained, and much lost.

Absolutely true in terms of initial license. I don't expect anyone
to choose as their first license to get a glider-SP license.

However, for transition pilots, either from ultralights
or Airplane Single Engine Land, this is a large improvement.

A
regular glider licence has no night flight restrictions, no altitude
restriction, and most importantly, if you happen to loose your Drivers
License, even for something not related to your health, you can still
fly.

Another interesting point is that 61.31(d)(2) solo of transition
ASEL pilots to gliders also has no restrictions. This is why in
my writings about SP I focus almost exclusively on 2-place
LSA and SP. The passenger carrying in a new cat/class with NO
additional check ride is the key. And pipistrel seems to be counting on
this, since their Sinus and Virus motorgliders require but
the stroke of a pen by two CFIs to make an ASEL into a glider-SP.


I'm a big proponent of Sport Pilot, and even of S-LSA or E-LSA gliders,
but for someone to choose to get a Sport Pilot-glider lic. would be
foolish (you can still fly LSA gliders with a reg glider lic)

Again, this is very true. We're just talking about transition
pilots in two-seat gliders. The rest of the SP rule doesn't seem
to have much value where gliders are concerned...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd

Mark James Boyd wrote:

"I've never met an ASEL pilot who couldn't safely fly a glider
in all the other (PTS) areas by the time he had learned to safely aerotow"
... [big snip] ...

In the sense you developped below, it is certainly true, but would be equally
true if you deleted the word "ASEL".