Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

Ed Rasimus wrote:

And, if you find an air defense alert barn with Eagles or Vipers
lurking therein, you might want to ask the guard at the gate who has
launch authority for those ANG jets, the governor?

Don't bother the sentry, just look at the command patches worn by ANG
personnel. You won't find any Texas ANG or NJANG patches, you'll find ACC
patches, AMC patches or even SPACECOM patches, all *USAF* MAJCOMs.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"R. David Steele" wrote:

| Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?
|
| He did join the US Air Force.
|
| The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.
|
| Is that like saying that the SeaBees aren't really part of the navy?
|
| The Texas ANG is a state organization until such time as it's activated, and the
| only time its members are in the USAF as such is when they've been activated,
| either as a unit or as individuals. In Dubya's case, he was only active during
| his flight training.....the rest of his service was in a state organization.
| The Seabees were different....they were an integral part of the Navy at the
| time, as was the submarine service, etc. If you enlisted in the Seabees, you
| were in the Navy from day one.
|
| To the best of my knowledge, the Texas ANG was never federalized as a unit
| during the VN War, although individual members who may have volunteered would
| have been activated and assigned to active USAF units.
|
| See the difference?
|
|
|You are incorrect. The National Guard (both Air and Army) are
|components of the US Air Force and US Army. When not federalized they
|are under control of the states. You got your cart before your horse.
| The Fed doesn't take them away, the resume control of them.

The Guard is dual hated.

Freudian slip?

Bob McKellar ( not actually a Freudian himself )

"Gary Thomas" wrote in message ...
You are incorrect. The National Guard (both Air and Army) are
components of the US Air Force and US Army. When not federalized they
are under control of the states. You got your cart before your horse.
The Fed doesn't take them away, the resume control of them.

Exactamundo my friend...glad someone got it right. I've been following this
post and was about to say as you did.
I served in the Ky National Guard from 1971 through 1998 and heard this
debate over and over...



Pleased to meet ya. We have some Kentucky boys here in the 'Stan with
our Task Force.

"Ace" wrote

Is it following the law to vote along partisan lines? Or do you think
that was pure coincidence?

Go play with your chads. Chicago and New York screwed-up by
trying to trust the Cubans to elect them. The Cubans don't like Gore.
They don't like Kerry either. The Democrats have missed the boat
down there since 1963.

He didn't go to officer candidate school because the Air National Guard
doesn't have one. You have been told that repeatedly but keep
repeating the same old tired lies even when you know they are lies.

Someone -- I didn't keep track -- said that Bush DID go to OTS. When I asked
if OTS attendees were considered to be enlisted men, I got nothing back.

It's also been alleged that the ANG was part of the Air Force. "No", that's
not right", someone else said.

Now I know in the Marine Corps the training requirements for reserve and
regular officers are identical. Every Marine officer goes through TBS, the
Basic School, even the academy graduates.

And I know that the National Guard are not strictly speaking reserve forces.
That is, they report to the governors of the various states in a way, and under
certain conditions, that the active reserves do not.

Maybe I missed it, but can anyone confirm that ANG fliers do receive officer
specific training or not? Bush's military resume states he went from an
enlisted status to an officer status on the following day. James Webb
characterized this service by saying that Bush never attended OCS (I think that
was the term he used).

Who's got the straight scoop on this?

Walt

Why didn't GWB join the U.S. Air Force ?

He did join the US Air Force.

The Texas Air National Guard is NOT the U. S. Air Force.

It is a COMPONENT of the Air Force just as the Reserves, Retired Reserves etc
are.


So do flying officers in the US Air Force go through six weeks of training --
as enlisted men -- and then are commissioned as officers?

Do -any- Air Force officers do that?

Bush's military resume clearly states that he was an enlisted man one day and a
commissoned officer the next.

There has been a lot of back and forth on this, but no consensus on through
which means officers are accessed into the ANG vice the Air Force.

I'd really be surprised to find that the Air Force runs potential officers
through a six week program in which they are considered enlisted men. In the
Marine Corps, officer candidates are NOT considered enlisted men. I know
there are some differences between the Guard/Reserve and also between the
Army/Air Force and the Marine Corps/Navy way of doing things.

But going straight from being an enlisted man, as Bush did, to being an officer
the very next day seems pretty strange.

And here's the link to Bush's military resume:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc14.gif

I can tell by some subsequent follow on notes, that people are not going to
these links I post, but I can't help that.

If some of ya'll can screw up your courage and actually look at that link,
you'll see that it makes -no- mention of Bush -ever- being in Alabama.

The reason for that is pretty clear. Bush skipped out on the last two years
of his commitment.

Walt

Walt

"Ace" wrote in message
...

Is it following the law to vote along partisan lines? Or do you think
that was pure coincidence?


It is following the law to adhere to the Constitution. Conservatives, by
definition, do that. Liberals do not.

On 13 Jul 2004 09:24:01 GMT, (WalterM140) wrote:

So do flying officers in the US Air Force go through six weeks of training --
as enlisted men -- and then are commissioned as officers?

Since 1962 all entries to USAF Undergraduate Pilot Training enter as
commissioned officers. Since 1964 all entries to Navigator training
enter as commissioned officers. (Prior to that the Aviation Cadet
program allowed for two years of college to qualify and a dual
training program that resulted in both a commission and an
aeronautical rating, AKA "wings.")

Do -any- Air Force officers do that?

USAF line officers are commissioned through USAFA, AFROTC and OTS.
Officer Training School requires a four-year college degree to enter.
The cadets are subject to the UCMJ and are paid at enlisted rates.
While they do not hold a specific enlisted rank, they are considered
to be enlisted. On completion of the program they are commissioned as
USAF officers.

Bush's military resume clearly states that he was an enlisted man one day and a
commissoned officer the next.

Day before completion of OTS, you're enlisted. Get sworn in and handed
the commission, you're officer.

There has been a lot of back and forth on this, but no consensus on through
which means officers are accessed into the ANG vice the Air Force.

There is no requirement for "consensus." Facts do not require
consensus. Get out your Funk & Wagnall's and look up the word.

I'd really be surprised to find that the Air Force runs potential officers
through a six week program in which they are considered enlisted men. In the
Marine Corps, officer candidates are NOT considered enlisted men. I know
there are some differences between the Guard/Reserve and also between the
Army/Air Force and the Marine Corps/Navy way of doing things.

Great. You've had a breakthrough. There are differences between USMC,
Army, USAF, Guard, Reserve. Good.

But going straight from being an enlisted man, as Bush did, to being an officer
the very next day seems pretty strange.

Virtually everyone who ever went through OTS/OCS did exactly that.

And here's the link to Bush's military resume:

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc14.gif

I can tell by some subsequent follow on notes, that people are not going to
these links I post, but I can't help that.

I go to some, but quite often the domain indicates that the
information is biased at best and falsified at the worst. A "users"
domain is for individual bloggers. It doesn't connote any great degree
of credibility. Sorry about that.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 01:24:12 -0500, "D. Strang"
wrote:

"Ace" wrote

Is it following the law to vote along partisan lines? Or do you think
that was pure coincidence?

Go play with your chads. Chicago and New York screwed-up by
trying to trust the Cubans to elect them. The Cubans don't like Gore.
They don't like Kerry either. The Democrats have missed the boat
down there since 1963.

Who won the popular vote?

Who won the Grammy?


--
If you really want to save the
environment, support a family farmer.

Brooks Gregory

"Ace" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:47:07 GMT, "Brooks Gregory"
wrote:

Is it following the law to vote along partisan lines? Or do you
think
that was pure coincidence?

Go play with your chads. Chicago and New York screwed-up by
trying to trust the Cubans to elect them. The Cubans don't like Gore.
They don't like Kerry either. The Democrats have missed the boat
down there since 1963.

Who won the popular vote?

Who won the Grammy?

I see. When you find an uncomfortable question you answer with a
different question.

I'll give you a hint. George Bush wasn't the winner.

Go find yourself a playmate kid. I was in the political arena way too long
to play your games.


--
If you really want to save the
environment, support a family farmer.

Brooks Gregory