Why is Soaring declining

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 06:29:53 UTC, (Lennie
the Lurker) wrote:

: Then look at how many of the voices ripping the pw actually have flown
: or own one. Not a very good ratio of first hand knowledge to personal
: opinion. Probably closer to 5% first hand and 95% ignorant badmouth.
: 2-33, 1-26, PW-5, Russia, makes no difference, it's below 40:1 and
: anything that can be said negatively will be. Nobody asks if it's
: serving the purpose for which it was designed.

As a 34:1 chap myself, and a strong supporter of the SIFOWs brigade, I
have nothing against the PW-5 per se. However, I am not sure that it
has fulfilled the purpose for which it was designed:

1) Stimulating interest by being affordable. Unfortunately for the
PW-5 (and the Silent, and the Russia, and ...) there are just too many
second hand gliders around for the same sort of money, and a ten year
old glider isn't nearly such an off-putting proposition as a ten-year
old car. So in this respect it has failed - it hasn't caused a surge
of interest, even if it costs what it was meant to. This is not to
disparage some local successes - it seems to have given the people in
New Zealand a way to renew a predominately Ka6 club fleet effectively
and popularly.

2) Stimulating interest by being a competition class. Unfortunately
for the PW-5, there just aren't that many pilots around who care about
competing. And, almost by definition, those who don't care enough to
be selling their houses, spouses and cars to buy something big and
modern are also unlikely to pay a premium for occasional lower-level
competition. It's a shame that more top-end pilots haven't taken to
it, but I suspect that the competition year is already pretty crowded.

I haven't flown one, though I'd like to, particularly to see how it
compares with my Pirat. From all accounts it's a very nice wee glider,
but I'm afraid that as far as renewing the sport goes, it has been a
failure. The cheap, simple, competitive gliders which attract people
into flying have lots of strings and pack intoa big rucksack. Maybe
the conventional gliding world should swallow its pride, descend from
its high horse, make common cause - and try to lure the paragliders
across when they get to an age when breaking ankles seems less
attractive ...

Ian

Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

-Pat

(soarski) wrote in message . com...
will remain small, and declining.

Saying that people are "too lazy" to soar is like me saying soaring
people are too lazy to try metalworking. I just made a skid plate for
a 2-33 out of 1/4 inch AR plate, 3 1/2 hours pushing it through the
saw to cut to size. Call me lazy if you will, but I'd rather push the
steel than pay through the nose for what soaring costs, and it's just
as interesting.

BUT Lennie......You went about it the wrong way! I used to take some
stock with the corect width, had the guy where I picked it up, just
cut it with a big shear! Usually made three of them at a time.
Clamped them all together and hoped for a good drill bit in the press.
Those were the times, replacing those skids, while customers were
waiting to fly!

You aren't going to cut AR plate with a shear. Unless you want to buy
the owner a new shear, that is. Same stuff bulldozer blades have for
their cutting edge. Should need replacing sometime in about 2030,
maybe. Saw speed was 40FPM, cutting rate 8 inches per hour. Drilling
no problem, used masonry bit in the milling machine, 320 RPM, and lots
of cutting oil. Interesting, but not something I want to do again.

ISoar wrote:
.... that may mean putting the financial survival of the firm on
the line. Maybe it will happen when a company has to choose between
inovatation of bankruptcy.


Yes. Very much like Boeing when it "bet the farm" to develop the 747.

Tony V.

"Tony Verhulst" wrote in message
...
ISoar wrote:
.... that may mean putting the financial survival of the firm on
the line. Maybe it will happen when a company has to choose between
inovatation of bankruptcy.


Yes. Very much like Boeing when it "bet the farm" to develop the 747.

Tony V.

IIRC, Boeing bet the farm on the B-17 (for which they received the German
swept wing research post-WWII which was immediately applied to the B-47),
the 707 (for which they eventually sacrificed winning military contracts for
decades), and the 727 (which really brought new innovations to aircraft
computer design and construction methods, not to mention lower service and
turnaround costs and a 40-year service life). The 747 was the first new
innovative airframe that Boeing didn't bet the farm on. What was really
incredible were the cottage industries that popped up as fourth level
subcontractors in the back of plumbing, electrical, and machine shops around
the area.

When I was young, we raised funds for our church group by selling 'snack'
trays which were the window punch outs from the 707 lines. They already had
the interior vinyl attached and were fairly attractive, plus the process
created a raised lip.

For many years, Boeing had one of the most fantastic surplus yards going.
It's still pretty good, but not like it was.

Frank Whiteley

Pat Russell wrote in message . ..
Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

-Pat

I think the elitism problem is largely an urban myth.

It's all too easy for unsuccesful pilots to blame elitism rather than
take a hard look at their own lack of skill, ability or perserverence.

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

Pat Russell wrote in message . ..
Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

No, It's not the easiest to address. Those that practice it, probably
live the rest of their lives the same way, and don't really care if
they're doing any damage or not. They don't see it, never will
because it would have them take a good look at themselves, and find
that they're far from perfect.

The first is probably insurmountable, common sense says food for the
family is more important than time in a glider.

The second, depends on how far one is willing to travel, and in my
case, I'm not.

Third, something has to offer more than the others, and depending on
the interests of the individual, for most of the population, soaring
is pretty far from the top of the list, if it ever made it to the
list. No different than any other hobby. Soaring gets to scramble
for the interest and the bucks just like any other activity. If it
makes the cut, you got one, if not, better look for another one.

Lennie, you're starting to scare me. A couple of good posts in a row.

Tony V.

Oh, yeah.... :-) :-)

(Leon McAtee) wrote in message . com...

I get the feeling that if I show up somewhere
with a 4th hand Woodstock towed behind an old Jetta and step out on
the field dressed in Levi's and a T-shirt there will be a few pilots
quietly snickering in the background about my poor performing
hardware.

No. THey wouldn't be in the background, they'd be in your face and
loudly proclaiming it to you. Not all of them, a bare minority, but
enough that after three years of it, the thought of listening to it
again made my reaction to thinking about the airport one of wanting to
puke.

somewhere
with a 4th hand Woodstock towed behind an old Jetta and step out on
the field dressed in Levi's and a T-shirt there will be a few pilots
quietly snickering in the background about my poor performing
hardware.

Too right! A large percentage of members at my club proclaim anything other
than glass as a Piece of Sh** and gladly tell new students this. Never mind
having to "dumb down" to fly a 1-26.

Sadly, the new students who haven't a clue take on the same attitude.

Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ
illspam