Bomber-jacket leather and our law

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 04:00:32 GMT,
(Corey C. Jordan) wrote:

However, when
you compare prices, the Chinese made jackets are an unbeatable value.

For example, MIL spec G-1 is $119, pile lined, US NAVY punched on the
wind flap exactly like issue. A-2 in goatskin or cowhide, cotton lined is just
$99!!!

To bring the thread back to the original post, this is no doubt why
the guvmint is buying Pakistani goatskin.

I may investigate Airborne Leathers! Which is the "Flying Tigers"
jacket, the G-1 or G-2? If I'm going to buy fake, I want the most
authentic fake that money can buy.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:26:34 -0400, Cub Driver wrote:



I may investigate Airborne Leathers! Which is the "Flying Tigers"
jacket, the G-1 or G-2? If I'm going to buy fake, I want the most
authentic fake that money can buy.

I have photos of the AVG guys taken during February of 1942.
Most are wearing G-1 jackets, with a few A-2s as well. Several of
them managed to get themselves the joint service AN-J-4 jacket
too.

However, the G-1 was the most common jacket among them simply
because so many were former Naval Aviators.

You can purchase a replica silk blood chit and sew it on the back of
a G-1 for the correct AVG look. These are available from U.S. Wings
at http://www.military-jackets.com/patches.asp $23.

So for around $150, you can make your own AVG jacket, or you can
buy one from http://www.flightsuits.com/leather_a2_avg.html for a whopping
$828!! Not only is it expensive, but it's an A-2 jacket, less common in the
AVG than the G-1.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

(Corey C. Jordan) wrote in message .. .
On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:26:34 -0400, Cub Driver wrote:



I may investigate Airborne Leathers! Which is the "Flying Tigers"
jacket, the G-1 or G-2? If I'm going to buy fake, I want the most
authentic fake that money can buy.

Looking at their website, I wouldn't buy anything from Airborne
Leather.

I have photos of the AVG guys taken during February of 1942.
Most are wearing G-1 jackets,

They are wearing the WWII version of the G-1, the M-422 or M-422A.
The G-1 designation wasn't adopted until '47. The "G-2" never was.

with a few A-2s as well. Several of
them managed to get themselves the joint service AN-J-4 jacket
too.

The AN-J-4 wasn't standardized until mid '43, and didn't reach flyers
until '44. The AVG guys are wearing USN M-445s.

However, the G-1 was the most common jacket among them simply
because so many were former Naval Aviators.

The M-422 was worn buy the AVG because when the Chinese bought flight
gear to outfit them, they bought USN gear.

You can purchase a replica silk blood chit and sew it on the back of
a G-1 for the correct AVG look. These are available from U.S. Wings
at http://www.military-jackets.com/patches.asp $23.

So for around $150, you can make your own AVG jacket, or you can
buy one from http://www.flightsuits.com/leather_a2_avg.html for a whopping
$828!! Not only is it expensive, but it's an A-2 jacket, less common in the
AVG than the G-1.

Over priced, and it isn't even done up as an AVG jacket, it's a 23rd
FG jacket.

If I wanted to make a reasonably priced and pretty authentic AVG
jacket, I'd get a Flight Suits (now called Gibson and Barnes) M-422A
and one of their silk blood chits to sew on the back. Eastman Leather
Clothing and The Real McCoy's also make excellent reproduction M-422s,
but they start at $600.

~Michael

On 18 Sep 2003 06:06:13 -0700, (Michael) wrote:



Looking at their website, I wouldn't buy anything from Airborne
Leather.

Why not, because they're a small store-front business?

In case you aren't aware of it, about 98% of new businesses opening
their doors this year are small store-front or garage based establishments.

Indeed, the majority of the Fortune 500 companies began the same way.
Big idea, small budget. Service and quality are what they offer. Dial their
number and talk to a real person concerned to satisfy a customer.

As to their products, virtually every Chinese Jacket sold in this country is
made in one of three factories. Quality is good and the value excellent.

My firm has been buying from China for several years and we have constructed our
own manufacturing facility there. The quality of machined parts is always
improving and they are anxious to compete on their own merit.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

The AN-J-4 wasn't standardized until mid '43, and didn't reach flyers
until '44. The AVG guys are wearing USN M-445s.

Actually, no. I won't go into the niceties of A dash and M dash
jackets, but the AVG pilots were told to bring their own flight
jackets with them. So the army pilots for the most part wore the same
jackets they'd worn in the Army Air Corps--not navy issue.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

(Corey C. Jordan) wrote in message ...
On 18 Sep 2003 06:06:13 -0700, (Michael) wrote:



Looking at their website, I wouldn't buy anything from Airborne
Leather.

Why not, because they're a small store-front business?

No. I've got a narrow definition of what an A-2 (and G-1) is, and
their product doesn't meet that. It's a poor representation of the
A-2, at best.

~Michael

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
The AN-J-4 wasn't standardized until mid '43, and didn't reach flyers
until '44. The AVG guys are wearing USN M-445s.

Actually, no.

No what? The only sheepskin jackets I've seen worn by AVG guys were
Navy jackets. Whether they brought them with them, or the Chinese
bought them for them, I can't saw for sure. But *NO ONE* was wearing
and AN-J-4 in '42. Whether or not any of the AAC guys brought along
B-3s, I don't know. I've never seen a photo of anyone wearing one.

I won't go into the niceties of A dash and M dash jackets,

The "A" jackets are AAC/AAF, the "M" jacket are USN. AAC/AAF garments
with the "A" prefix are usually considered to be summer wear and those
with a "B" to be winter wear. Is there something beyond that that I
need enlightened about?

but the AVG pilots were told to bring their own flight
jackets with them. So the army pilots for the most part wore the same
jackets they'd worn in the Army Air Corps--not navy issue.

I'm well aware that some AAC AVG pilots (and ground crew) brought
along A-2s and other various AAC gear. But the AVG pilots used lots
of Navy flight gear, regardless of which branch they came from.

~Michael

On 19 Sep 2003 06:30:55 -0700, (Michael) wrote:

(Corey C. Jordan) wrote in message ...
On 18 Sep 2003 06:06:13 -0700, (Michael) wrote:



Looking at their website, I wouldn't buy anything from Airborne
Leather.

Why not, because they're a small store-front business?

No. I've got a narrow definition of what an A-2 (and G-1) is, and
their product doesn't meet that. It's a poor representation of the
A-2, at best.

~Michael

Well, I have a mid 1970s issue G-1 and the Chinese copy. I'll be damned
if I can tell the difference without knowing which is which until I closely
inspect the jacket and find that the Chinese jacket has slash pockets
concealed at the seam, a feature I wish the MIL spec jacket had.

I guess that I'm not such a snob that I'll turn my nose at a perfectly
adequate garment that has the look of the original without the outrageous
expense of the high end stuff worn many wannabe geeks (no inference intended).

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

Subject: Bomber-jacket leather and our law
From: (Corey C. Jordan)
Date: 9/19/03 7:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

I'll be damned
if I can tell the difference without knowing which is which until I closely
inspect the jacket and find that the Chinese jacket has slash pockets
concealed at the seam, a feature I wish the MIL spec jacket had.

Officers do not put their hands in their pockets


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Officers do not put their hands in their pockets

Do they get Other Ranks to it for them?

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk