If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
I've read the statute and have copied part of it below:
2) Purchases Outside Florida. (a) There shall be a presumption that any aircraft, boat, mobile home, motor vehicle, or other vehicle purchased in another state, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia but titled, registered, or licensed in this state is taxable except as otherwise provided in subsection (26) of this rule. The way I read it is the aircraft is taxable IF it's "titled, registered or licensed" in Florida. IF the aircraft was purchased more than 6 months ago then the tax isn't applicable. So, I buy a Cessna in Alabama where I live and work. And register it in Alabama... Then it's not a taxable event in Florida. BUT, if I buy it in Alabama and then, for some unknown reason, I register it in Florida... then it's a taxable event. I note that the statement that Cheung made didn't address whether or not the aircraft was registered in Florida or somewhere else. If the Meridian owner had registered the aircraft in Florida then, of course, the tax was applicable. It's possible the owner failed to register the aircraft in a state other than Florida. I can certainly see where Florida tax officials could easily make the assumption that the owner was trying to avoid paying taxes at all... We don't know all the details. It appears the author of the article was more concerned about trashing Sun and Fun than actually doing real investigative and non-biased reporting. But, that's what we've grown to expect from Captain Zoom... John Mike Murdock wrote: I know Daniel Cheung personally, and he is a straight shooter. The facts are as stated. The ONLY reason the Meridian owner was charged with the tax was that he had it at a Florida airport for a few days while he was there for training. He didn't buy the plane in Florida, was never a Florida resident, and didn't have any business interests in Florida. The way the Florida tax law is currently written, it is all perfectly legal. The only exception: you are exempt if the airplane is in Florida for service. Showing proof that the airplane is kept in another state is immaterial. The Meridian owner spent $10,000 in legal fees fighting this before giving up and paying the tax. Whatever Campbell's beef with SNF, his basic facts are correct. The Florida Dept. of Revenue believes it has the right to collect use tax on out-of-state planes, and has done so in the past. Now, I doubt that even those idiots would be foolish enough to try it at SNF, and they may well have assured SNF management that they will not do so, but the fact remains that their law gives them the right to collect. By the way, this does not apply just to new airplanes. It applies to ANY airplane, new or used, purchased in the prior six months. The Florida government is aware of this issue, and I suspect they are a bit embarassed by the bad publicity. A Florida legislator is working on a bill that would make the tax apply only to Florida residents. -Mike |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
On Mar 23, 5:39*pm, wrote:
On Mar 23, 3:44*pm, Peter Clark wrote: On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote: This latest line of zzzoom B.S. is one of those deals that just don't add up. Can you imagine Netjets or some outfit like that flying a new Gulfstream into Florida to pick up a charter and get that tax bill. Maybe the state should just post a tax collector at each gate at MIA and bill American every time they taxi in a new 777. I liked the part toward the end of his rant about SnF inflating their visitor count. I remember when the worthless ******* sued me (I won). He stated under oath that he had in excess of 45,000 paid subscribers to his so called magazine most believe it was closer to maybe 4,000 or less. This is just his latest ploy to stick it to SnF for barring him from the show. You can about set your watch by his annual anti- Sun n Fun rant. *Frank M.Hitlaw at my Secret World Hq He might have a not-so-secret agenda, but wanna tell the Meridian owner who got a $100,000+ tax bill when he showed up at SimCom for a week that it's all in this guy's head?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I got a notion that there is more to this than meets the eye. What if the guy bought the plane in Florida, he would owe the sales taxes on it. I can think of other scenarios that could cause this to happen. I don't know but I am very skeptical of anything that comes from campbell. So far we have only heard one side of this story. Frank M.Hitlaw at my Secret World Hq- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Specific Exemptions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An aircraft may be purchased tax-exempt if it is sold by or through a registered dealer to a nonresident purchaser who will remove the aircraft from this state. Within 5 days of the date of sale, the dealer must provide DOR with a copy of the invoice, bill of sale, and/ or closing statement; and the original, signed, removal affidavit. Tax will not be due if either of the following requirements are met: The aircraft must be removed from Florida within 10 days from the date of sale. If the aircraft needs repairs, additions, or alterations, it must immediately be placed in a repair facility registered with DOR and removed from Florida within 20 days from the date the work is complete. The purchaser must also meet these requirements: Sign an affidavit attesting that the purchaser has read the applicable rules and law regarding the exemption claimed and will timely remove the aircraft as required. Within 10 days of removal, furnish DOR with proof that the aircraft left Florida (submit copies of receipts for fuel charges, tie-down charges, or repair or hangar charges from outside Florida). Within 30 days of departure, furnish DOR with written proof that the aircraft was licensed, registered, titled, and hangared outside Florida. This exemption does not apply to sales to Florida residents, corporations whose officers or directors are Florida residents, or other entities whose controlling individual is a Florida resident. ========================== Seems the specific exemptions are fairly clear. Based on these, there should be no reason for fear to those going to Sun-N-Fun. |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
On Mar 23, 7:22*pm, BobR wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:39*pm, wrote: On Mar 23, 3:44*pm, Peter Clark wrote: On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:34:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote: This latest line of zzzoom B.S. is one of those deals that just don't add up. Can you imagine Netjets or some outfit like that flying a new Gulfstream into Florida to pick up a charter and get that tax bill. Maybe the state should just post a tax collector at each gate at MIA and bill American every time they taxi in a new 777. I liked the part toward the end of his rant about SnF inflating their visitor count. I remember when the worthless ******* sued me (I won). He stated under oath that he had in excess of 45,000 paid subscribers to his so called magazine most believe it was closer to maybe 4,000 or less. This is just his latest ploy to stick it to SnF for barring him from the show. You can about set your watch by his annual anti- Sun n Fun rant. *Frank M.Hitlaw at my Secret World Hq He might have a not-so-secret agenda, but wanna tell the Meridian owner who got a $100,000+ tax bill when he showed up at SimCom for a week that it's all in this guy's head?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I got a notion that there is more to this than meets the eye. What if the guy bought the plane in Florida, he would owe the sales taxes on it. I can think of other scenarios that could cause this to happen. I don't know but I am very skeptical of anything that comes from campbell. So far we have only heard one side of this story. Frank M.Hitlaw at my Secret World Hq- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Specific Exemptions ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*----- An aircraft may be purchased tax-exempt if it is sold by or through a registered dealer to a nonresident purchaser who will remove the aircraft from this state. Within 5 days of the date of sale, the dealer must provide DOR with a copy of the invoice, bill of sale, and/ or closing statement; and the original, signed, removal affidavit. Tax will not be due if either of the following requirements are met: The aircraft must be removed from Florida within 10 days from the date of sale. If the aircraft needs repairs, additions, or alterations, it must immediately be placed in a repair facility registered with DOR and removed from Florida within 20 days from the date the work is complete. The purchaser must also meet these requirements: Sign an affidavit attesting that the purchaser has read the applicable rules and law regarding the exemption claimed and will timely remove the aircraft as required. Within 10 days of removal, furnish DOR with proof that the aircraft left Florida (submit copies of receipts for fuel charges, tie-down charges, or repair or hangar charges from outside Florida). Within 30 days of departure, furnish DOR with written proof that the aircraft was licensed, registered, titled, and hangared outside Florida. This exemption does not apply to sales to Florida residents, corporations whose officers or directors are Florida residents, or other entities whose controlling individual is a Florida resident. ========================== Seems the specific exemptions are fairly clear. *Based on these, there should be no reason for fear to those going to Sun-N-Fun.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Trying to tax an airplane (or other vehicle) legally bought and registered in another state state would be in conflict with federal laws concerning the 'right of free travel', i.e., you can travel freely across state borders. They can no more tax a plane in those circumstances than they can an automobile, boat, etc. Not to say they can't charge user fees but that is a different animal. Harry K |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:04:43 -0700, John Ammeter
wrote: I've read the statute and have copied part of it below: 2) Purchases Outside Florida. (a) There shall be a presumption that any aircraft, boat, mobile home, motor vehicle, or other vehicle purchased in another state, territory of the United States, or the District of Columbia but titled, registered, or licensed in this state is taxable except as otherwise provided in subsection (26) of this rule. The way I read it is the aircraft is taxable IF it's "titled, registered or licensed" in Florida. IF the aircraft was purchased more than 6 months ago then the tax isn't applicable. Read the AOPA's take on it. http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article.../080320fl.html If you read farther in the statute, the way the state is *apparently* intertpeting it is ANY anirplane brought into the state purchased less than 6 months prior whether it is registered in the state or not. So, I buy a Cessna in Alabama where I live and work. And register it in Alabama... Then it's not a taxable event in Florida. BUT, if I buy it in Alabama and then, for some unknown reason, I register it in Florida... then it's a taxable event. I note that the statement that Cheung made didn't address whether or not the aircraft was registered in Florida or somewhere else. If the Meridian owner had registered the aircraft in Florida then, of course, the tax was applicable. It's possible the owner failed to register the aircraft in a state other than Florida. I can certainly see where Florida tax officials could easily make the assumption that the owner was trying to avoid paying taxes at all... We don't know all the details. It appears the author of the article was more concerned about trashing Sun and Fun than actually doing real investigative and non-biased reporting. But, that's what we've grown to Skip Campbell and read the AOPA:-)) expect from Captain Zoom... John Mike Murdock wrote: I know Daniel Cheung personally, and he is a straight shooter. The facts are as stated. The ONLY reason the Meridian owner was charged with the tax was that he had it at a Florida airport for a few days while he was there for training. He didn't buy the plane in Florida, was never a Florida resident, and didn't have any business interests in Florida. The way the Florida tax law is currently written, it is all perfectly legal. The only exception: you are exempt if the airplane is in Florida for service. Showing proof that the airplane is kept in another state is immaterial. The Meridian owner spent $10,000 in legal fees fighting this before giving up and paying the tax. Whatever Campbell's beef with SNF, his basic facts are correct. The Florida Dept. of Revenue believes it has the right to collect use tax on out-of-state planes, and has done so in the past. Now, I doubt that even those idiots would be foolish enough to try it at SNF, and they may well have assured SNF management that they will not do so, but the fact remains that their law gives them the right to collect. By the way, this does not apply just to new airplanes. It applies to ANY airplane, new or used, purchased in the prior six months. The Florida government is aware of this issue, and I suspect they are a bit embarassed by the bad publicity. A Florida legislator is working on a bill that would make the tax apply only to Florida residents. -Mike Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
Seems the specific exemptions are fairly clear. *Based on these, there should be no reason for fear to those going to Sun-N-Fun.- Hide quoted text - http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article.../080320fl.html Apparently some of their collectors are placing a different interpetation on the rules. - Show quoted text - Trying to tax an airplane (or other vehicle) legally bought and registered in another state state would be in conflict with federal laws concerning the 'right of free travel', i.e., you can travel freely across state borders. They can no more tax a plane in those circumstances than they can an automobile, boat, etc. Not to say they can't charge user fees but that is a different animal. Hasn't the statre of Maine been doing just that? Harry K Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
"Mike Murdock" wrote:
I know Daniel Cheung personally, and he is a straight shooter. The facts are as stated. The ONLY reason the Meridian owner was charged with the tax was that he had it at a Florida airport for a few days while he was there for training. He didn't buy the plane in Florida, was never a Florida resident, and didn't have any business interests in Florida. Someone mentioned that the _one_ identified incident involved an aircraft that was allegedly a Meridian - I presume they meant a Piper Meridian - is that correct? If that is the case, isn't it true that Piper is based in Florida and its tax "nexus" is therefore Florida? Was the seller Piper or some other Florida entity for the purposes of sales tax or not? If not, what state did the seller reside in for sales tax purposes? Also, I notice that on Aviation Tax Consultants web page (Danial Cheung's firm; http://www.aviationtaxconsultants.com/index.html) there is one article that mentions an incident in Florida that happened in August 2007: http://www.aviationtaxconsultants.co...Aug%202007.pdf If this is the same incident, why is it being brought up 7 months later? I suppose I could contact Daniel Cheung directly, but am hoping you can supply an answer since you seem to have the information at hand and I presume he is unfamiliar with Usenet. |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
In article , Jim Logajan says...
? Also, I notice that on Aviation Tax Consultants web page (Danial Cheung's firm; http://www.aviationtaxconsultants.com/index.html) there is one article that mentions an incident in Florida that happened in August 2007: http://www.aviationtaxconsultants.co...Aug%202007.pdf If this is the same incident, why is it being brought up 7 months later? Easy 7 months ago zoom was still involved with his lawsuit against SnF and didn't need to. Now that his lawsuit was dismissed and he lost he needed something to go after SnF with for his annual SnF rant and this is it. Chuck(I bet there's more to it )S |
#28
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
"Roger" wrote in message
... Seems the specific exemptions are fairly clear. Based on these, there should be no reason for fear to those going to Sun-N-Fun.- Hide quoted text - http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article.../080320fl.html Apparently some of their collectors are placing a different interpetation on the rules. - Show quoted text - Trying to tax an airplane (or other vehicle) legally bought and registered in another state state would be in conflict with federal laws concerning the 'right of free travel', i.e., you can travel freely across state borders. They can no more tax a plane in those circumstances than they can an automobile, boat, etc. Not to say they can't charge user fees but that is a different animal. Hasn't the statre of Maine been doing just that? Harry K Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com My copy of AOPA Pilot was in today's mail and, as of press time, the Maine case is still going. Apparently, the Maine revenue department won't budge and the case is now headed to court... Not my area of expertise, so that's all I know. Peter |
#29
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:45:41 -0400, "Peter Dohm"
wrote: "Roger" wrote in message .. . Seems the specific exemptions are fairly clear. Based on these, there should be no reason for fear to those going to Sun-N-Fun.- Hide quoted text - http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article.../080320fl.html Apparently some of their collectors are placing a different interpetation on the rules. - Show quoted text - Trying to tax an airplane (or other vehicle) legally bought and registered in another state state would be in conflict with federal laws concerning the 'right of free travel', i.e., you can travel freely across state borders. They can no more tax a plane in those circumstances than they can an automobile, boat, etc. Not to say they can't charge user fees but that is a different animal. Hasn't the statre of Maine been doing just that? Harry K Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com My copy of AOPA Pilot was in today's mail and, as of press time, the Maine case is still going. Apparently, the Maine revenue department won't budge and the case is now headed to court... Not my area of expertise, so that's all I know. Me neither, but the AOPA online site is saying they are working with the state of Florida for a moratorium until after SnF and then rectify things . They seem to think (the way I read it) is this could be a big problem for SnF if not settled or a moratorium comes about to protect those flying into SnF. The problem I see on here is the guys are so hung up on Zoomn (and I understand why) but the problem in this case according to the AOPA is the state of Florida. Peter Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#30
|
|||
|
|||
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA !
Roger wrote in
news On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:45:41 -0400, "Peter Dohm" wrote: "Roger" wrote in message . .. Seems the specific exemptions are fairly clear. Based on these, there should be no reason for fear to those going to Sun-N-Fun.- Hide quoted text - http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article.../080320fl.html Apparently some of their collectors are placing a different interpetation on the rules. - Show quoted text - Trying to tax an airplane (or other vehicle) legally bought and registered in another state state would be in conflict with federal laws concerning the 'right of free travel', i.e., you can travel freely across state borders. They can no more tax a plane in those circumstances than they can an automobile, boat, etc. Not to say they can't charge user fees but that is a different animal. Hasn't the statre of Maine been doing just that? Harry K Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com My copy of AOPA Pilot was in today's mail and, as of press time, the Maine case is still going. Apparently, the Maine revenue department won't budge and the case is now headed to court... Not my area of expertise, so that's all I know. Me neither, but the AOPA online site is saying they are working with the state of Florida for a moratorium until after SnF and then rectify things . They seem to think (the way I read it) is this could be a big problem for SnF if not settled or a moratorium comes about to protect those flying into SnF. The problem I see on here is the guys are so hung up on Zoomn (and I understand why) but the problem in this case according to the AOPA is the state of Florida. Peter What do you expect of a state of which over 50% of the populace is of an age where they'll keep your balll if it falls in their yard? Bertie |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Just Bought A Plane? STAY OUT OF FLORIDA ! | WJRFlyBoy | Piloting | 156 | April 15th 08 12:52 PM |
Bought my first plane:-D | EridanMan | Owning | 8 | May 16th 06 08:22 PM |
bought the plane today | houstondan | Owning | 30 | April 30th 06 06:34 AM |
I just bought my 1st Plane...Thanks to the newsgroup! | WinstonCup | Owning | 24 | February 10th 04 11:46 PM |
I bought X-Plane and I want to share my experience | Bruce Shankle | Products | 0 | July 21st 03 08:25 AM |