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#11
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Rivet advise please
On Aug 21, 2:00*pm, Michael Horowitz wrote:
Bob - thanks for your reasoned response. I'd like to hear more about how you lined the drift along the rivet axis so that you got a symetrical mushroom head - Mike Mike, I just held the drift as straight as I could eyeball it and whacked it with a claw hammer. There are a couple relevant photos in the latest HP-24 project update: http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/update_25_aug_08.htm Thanks, Bob K. |
#12
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Rivet advise please
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:44:51 -0700 (PDT), Bob Kuykendall
wrote: On Aug 21, 2:00Â*pm, Michael Horowitz wrote: Bob - thanks for your reasoned response. I'd like to hear more about how you lined the drift along the rivet axis so that you got a symetrical mushroom head - Mike Mike, I just held the drift as straight as I could eyeball it and whacked it with a claw hammer. There are a couple relevant photos in the latest HP-24 project update: http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/update_25_aug_08.htm Thanks, Bob K. That's just as I've envisioned and tried, except I was using standard head rivets (placed in a slight indendation in my anvil to hold the head). I thought maybe my problem was using hard rivets, but that's what you are using - Mike |
#13
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Rivet advise please
Michael Horowitz wrote in
: On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:44:51 -0700 (PDT), Bob Kuykendall wrote: On Aug 21, 2:00Â*pm, Michael Horowitz wrote: Bob - thanks for your reasoned response. I'd like to hear more about how you lined the drift along the rivet axis so that you got a symetrical mushroom head - Mike Mike, I just held the drift as straight as I could eyeball it and whacked it with a claw hammer. There are a couple relevant photos in the latest HP-24 project update: http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/update_25_aug_08.htm Thanks, Bob K. That's just as I've envisioned and tried, except I was using standard head rivets (placed in a slight indendation in my anvil to hold the head). I thought maybe my problem was using hard rivets, but that's what you are using - Mike That is the way almost every Sonex builder sets the 300ish solid rivets in the wing spar. -- -- ET :-) "A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."---- Douglas Adams |
#14
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Rivet advise please
On Aug 25, 4:25*pm, Michael Horowitz wrote:
That's just as I've envisioned and tried, except I was using standard head rivets (placed in a slight indendation in my anvil to hold the head). I thought maybe my problem was using hard rivets, but that's what you are using - Mike The universal head rivets are definitely harder to drive with a hammer and anvil, they do tend to squirm around more. For them I usually either enlist help to hold the parts in position or I just squeeze them or use a rivet gun. When I hammer drive them I'll usually anchor a 3/16" shank squeeze set onto the anvil to cup the head. I'm helping a friend build an RV-8, and we just encountered an awkward situation where we absolutely could not get a rivet gun onto the head of a certain couple of rivets without removing the engine. What we did instead, and this worked out pretty well, was to drill a 3/16" hole in a bucking bar and anchor a universal-head rivet set in it. One of us held the bucking bar and rivet set against the manufactured head of the rivet, and the other used a back-riveting set in the rivet gun to hammer on the shop tail end. Worked just fine. For some tooling or test parts I just set the universal head on the vice, hammer the shop end with a drift, and accept the fact that the flat surface of the anvil leaves a flat spot on the universal head. That's how I set rivets for the test coupons I break when demonstrating the Break-O-Tron to schoolkids, and they've never failed to do at least the specified 26 ksi. Also, it takes virtually zero investment to practice some of the techniques I describe. A half- or quarter-pound of rivets is only a few dollars, and you'll probably get way more rivets than you'll actually need. Get some bits of scrap and practice. If the first three or five don't come out right, just keep trying different methods until you start seeing the sort of rivets you'd expect on a Piper or Cessna. To the degree that there's a point here, it's that there's a ton more ways to drive hard rivets than there are pretty pictures of in the A&P study guides and AC43.13. In addition to the techniques described above, I've set rivets inside box beams using tiny hydraulic rams, I've built suspended bucking bars to buck rivets inside those same boxes, and I've milled many custom bucking bars to get to and form awkwardly located shop tails. I guess it's sort of like what they say in NASCAR: If it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid. Thanks, Bob K. |
#15
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Rivet advise please
In article
, Bob Kuykendall wrote: On Aug 21, 2:00*pm, Michael Horowitz wrote: Bob - thanks for your reasoned response. I'd like to hear more about how you lined the drift along the rivet axis so that you got a symetrical mushroom head - Mike Mike, I just held the drift as straight as I could eyeball it and whacked it with a claw hammer. There are a couple relevant photos in the latest HP-24 project update: http://www.hpaircraft.com/hp-24/update_25_aug_08.htm Thanks, Bob K. That is a sure way to booger up a rivet! Use the proper tools! The cheap "air hammers" available from Harbor Freight, etc. do not work well -- they have the wrong stroke. I have an adjustable-orifice valve on all of my rivet guns, to regulate the frequency and intensity of the strokes. For An3-type rivets, it is set down to go tap-tap-tap-tap and works very well. -- Remove _'s from email address to talk to me. |
#16
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Rivet advise please
On Aug 25, 5:23 pm, Orval Fairbairn
wrote: That is a sure way to booger up a rivet! Use the proper tools! The cheap "air hammers" available from Harbor Freight, etc. do not work well -- they have the wrong stroke. I'm not sure I understand. I'm whacking a steel drift with a hammer of the steel-head-on-handle variety, there are no pneumatics involved. The hammer at hand was a claw hammer of the sort on every carpenter's tool belt, but I've also used machinists hammers, ball-peen hammers, dead-bow mallets, and also the back side of the odd monkey wrench. It was all good, or at least good enough. I imagine that if I did have my HF "heavy duty" air hammer handy, a good whack on the drift with its barrel would have done the trick. As you point out, its binary trigger and rough action sure enough make it pretty worthless as a rivet-driving tool of the pneumatic variety. And yeah, your point about using the proper tools is well taken. But we're just exploring the boundaries of what constitutes good-enough tools. Thanks, Bob K. |
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