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If user fees go into effect I'm done



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 9th 07, 07:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

On 9 Feb 2007 08:46:30 -0800, wrote in
.com:

All I have to say about user fees is that if they are implemented


The ATC user fee issue is a corporate boondoggle like Boeing's recent
infamous proposal to lease a hundred B-757(?) tankers to the USAF.
Fortunately there was enough 'stink' raised to expose, not only the
attempt to extort federal funds to keep Boeing's assembly line
operational, but the underlying criminal conduct of several Boeing
executives and DOD personnel.

Educate yourself about the proposed removal of congressional FAA
budget oversight and other aspects of the ATC privatization proposal.
Then write your federal representatives and lobby hard and long
against the ATC privatization boondoggle. Don't neglect to emphasize
the potential hazard to the public such a move will impose on airline
passengers, the enormous cost to tax payers at a time of record
federal expenditures, and the already brain-dead security and
logistics of airline travel.

ATC privatization is just another move supported by large corporate
interests and the current administration to raid the federal treasury
and further restrict our citizens' constitutional rights. The day of
reckoning is nigh; look at the public exposure of the misuse of
federal funds by contractors in Iraq (Halliburton/Blackwater,
contractors charging the government ten times the legitimate cost to
perform and taking kickbacks....). Look for a groundswell movement to
reform federal spending and corruption.

Ours is a government of the PEOPLE, by the People, and for the PEOPLE,
and corporations are not PEOPLE; expose their greedy exploits at every
opportunity, or resign yourself to enslavement through inaction.

[rec.aviation.ifr, rec.aviation.student added]

--

"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be
ruled by evil men." -- Plato


A great civilization is not conquered from without until it
has destroyed itself from within. ***
- Ariel Durant 1898-1981


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can
only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves
money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority
always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the
public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses
over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two
hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following
sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to
great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from
complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back
to bondage."
-- Alexander Tyler - Circa 1780 - discussing the fall of the
Athenian Democracy.


"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain
the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government." -- Patrick Henry

Ads
  #2  
Old February 9th 07, 07:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Bob Noel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,374
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

The ATC user fee issue is a corporate boondoggle like Boeing's recent
infamous proposal to lease a hundred B-757(?) tankers to the USAF.


fyi - 767

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

  #3  
Old February 9th 07, 09:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Sam Spade
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Posts: 1,325
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Larry Dighera wrote:


Ours is a government of the PEOPLE, by the People, and for the PEOPLE,
and corporations are not PEOPLE; expose their greedy exploits at every
opportunity, or resign yourself to enslavement through inaction.


The airlines want to control U.S. ATC. They also want everyone else to
pay for it.

Having said that, privatization of ATC and users fees are really
different issues.
  #4  
Old February 9th 07, 09:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 108
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On 9 Feb 2007 08:46:30 -0800, wrote in


Ours is a government of the PEOPLE, by the People, and for the PEOPLE,


the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the
government." -- Patrick Henry

If you believe that you believe anything.


  #5  
Old February 9th 07, 10:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Ken Finney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 190
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

The ATC user fee issue is a corporate boondoggle like Boeing's recent
infamous proposal to lease a hundred B-757(?) tankers to the USAF.


fyi - 767


And, Boeing didn't initially propose it. The AF wanted them, didn't have
the money, and asked "How would a private sector company do something like
this?".



  #6  
Old February 9th 07, 11:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
mike regish
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 438
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Now this is weird.

I just found that exact quote yesterday looking for something else.

mike

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can
only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves
money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority
always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the
public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses
over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two
hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following
sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to
great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from
complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back
to bondage."
-- Alexander Tyler - Circa 1780 - discussing the fall of the
Athenian Democracy.



  #7  
Old February 10th 07, 12:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Sam Spade
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,325
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

mike regish wrote:
..

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two
hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following
sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to
great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from
complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back
to bondage."
-- Alexander Tyler - Circa 1780 - discussing the fall of the
Athenian Democracy.




Sounds like we are about on schedule.
  #8  
Old February 10th 07, 03:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Roger[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 677
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

I can not find the initial post on this thread, but...
That said, I would expect if user fees go into effect we will se a lot
of flying outside the system, be it VFR or even IFR and that is not a
good or safe idea.

I'd certainly be tempted to fly VFR outside the system by going
between small airports and staying away from the larger ones unless it
was absolutely necessary. Oh... Wait, I already prefer to fly that
way. :-)) I'd also fly in legally marginal conditions when I'd
otherwise go IFR. I'd not fly IFR outside the system, but I'd bet
there would be many who would. Weather briefings? I'd bet the
weather channel would become real popular if they charge for weather
briefings. VFR flight plans when they charge for them? Yah gotta be
kidding.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
  #9  
Old February 10th 07, 03:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
Roger[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 677
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

Something on the order of 80 quoted levels and over 3300 lines of
text. That's a bit more than I'm willing to read. It may be factual,
but it's too much of a good thing.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
  #10  
Old February 10th 07, 09:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting,rec.aviation.ifr,rec.aviation.student
scott moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default If user fees go into effect I'm done

The government appears to want to place US aviation in line with
that of other countries, such as in the EU. In the short run they may
not be able to do much, but in the long run they certainly can,
especially with a declining pilot population, which this will
accelerate.

I'll make a suggestion that I'm sure nobody here will like. If we are
able to tie any user fees that come about to actual services, the next
step is to STOP the creation of any new control towers on small
airports, then follow that up with getting RID of as many control
towers, and FAA personnel, as possible. With modern technology such
as ADS-B, there is less need for them, and getting rid of FAA personnel
is the natural answer to the whole user fee question.

The FAA themselves have floated the idea that even IFR might someday
be uncontrolled. Uncontrolled = no controller. Its both a "solution"
to the FAA's (imaginary) "controller private aircraft workload", and
a THREAT, to the FAA. Ie., if you want to move to a model of charging
us to use a controller, we will want to move to a model without
controllers.

Scott Moore

Roger wrote:
I can not find the initial post on this thread, but...
That said, I would expect if user fees go into effect we will se a lot
of flying outside the system, be it VFR or even IFR and that is not a
good or safe idea.

I'd certainly be tempted to fly VFR outside the system by going
between small airports and staying away from the larger ones unless it
was absolutely necessary. Oh... Wait, I already prefer to fly that
way. :-)) I'd also fly in legally marginal conditions when I'd
otherwise go IFR. I'd not fly IFR outside the system, but I'd bet
there would be many who would. Weather briefings? I'd bet the
weather channel would become real popular if they charge for weather
briefings. VFR flight plans when they charge for them? Yah gotta be
kidding.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

 




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