Catastrophic Decompression; Small Place Solo

I have two questions inspired by Hollywood movies.

In the movies (Goldfinger, Executive Decision and so on),
when pressurized aircraft suffer catastrophic decompression
at high (25000+ feet) altitude (usually when the bad guy
shoots a bullet through a window) everything not tied down
gets sucked out of the plane and the aircraft goes into an
immediate, rapid nose dive and the pilots or the good guys
have to struggle to level it off or prevent a crash.

Is this an automatic "safety" feature of real, regular aircraft?
On the one hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe
but large aircraft have oxygen masks that drop down. (I could
do some rough estimates that the average fat slob can hold
their breath for less than a minute so, without masks, the jet
would have to go from let's say 30000 feet to 5000 feet in
30-45 seconds. My ears would explode.)

I would think that a crash dive to a lower altitude could be
even more dangerous such as if it occurred in a crowded air
corridor. Maybe there are other dangers.

What REALLY happens (or is supposed to happen) in the event
of sudden decompression of real high flying aircraft?



The second Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think
you're ready to solo' and gets out. The main character starts
to taxi and then other non-flying plot developments happen.
I was wondering if taking your FIRST solo flight is that simple.

The location in the film in Washington, DC but I figure all
US flying is FAA regulated. Wouldn't the first time soloist
have to fill out some forms, file a flight plan with the
airport and maybe even do a complete pre-flight check on the
aircraft? Is the simplified movie solo flight completely
bogus or could it happen that way?


THANK YOU VERY MUCH.






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"Aviation" wrote in message
u...
I have two questions inspired by Hollywood movies.

One should not believe pretty much anything a Hollywood movie has to say
about anything. Especially aviation.

That said, other than signing the student pilot's certificate and logbook,
there's not much fanfare to the student's first solo.

The other stuff is crap, just like pretty much any other "factual" element
of a Hollywood movie. They are for entertainment, not education.

Pete

"Aviation" wrote in message Is this an automatic "safety" feature of real, regular
aircraft?
On the one hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe
but large aircraft have oxygen masks that drop down.

The pilots initiate the dive for the reasons you suggest. While
supplemental oxygen helps, it's still better to get down to a reasonable
altitude. They presmably notify ATC while they are doing this that
there is an emergency in progress.

My ears would explode.)

Your ears already exploded when the aircraft cabin went from an
effective altitude of 8000 feet to 36,000 feet in a few seconds when
the depressurization occured.

The second Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think
you're ready to solo' and gets out. The main character starts
to taxi and then other non-flying plot developments happen.
I was wondering if taking your FIRST solo flight is that simple.

That's about how it happens. Technically, the student pilot's certificate
and logbook need to be signed to authorize the solo flight...but that's
pretty much how it happened to me. The instructor figured I was ready,
did a couple of landings with him (without him indicating that I might be
ready for solo) and then he got out. It was at a controlled field, so
shortly after takeoff, the controller asked how much better it flew without
that fat guy in the right seat.

Wouldn't the first time soloist
have to fill out some forms, file a flight plan with the
airport and maybe even do a complete pre-flight check on the
aircraft?

It wasn't Washington, it was "supposed" to be Frederick, Maryland about 50 miles NW
of DC. No flight plan is required, and the pre-flight check was done before they took off
the first time together, so there isn't much reason to do another.

Of course, most of the rest of that movie, including to stupid diversion to FDK rather than
Dulles (the Dulles runways are much wider and over twice as long as FDK), etc...

All of the gasses contained in your body come out through the closest
orifice (not your eardrums). Even if you were warned about the impending
decompression, you could not hold your mouth shut. In the pressure chamber,
from 25000 to sea level is instantaneous and you do a sustained
burp-and-fart. Never had to descend at emergency descent rates so I have no
experience in what happens to your breathing on the way down.

Bob Gardner

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"Aviation" wrote in message Is
this an automatic "safety" feature of real, regular
aircraft?
On the one hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe
but large aircraft have oxygen masks that drop down.

The pilots initiate the dive for the reasons you suggest. While
supplemental oxygen helps, it's still better to get down to a reasonable
altitude. They presmably notify ATC while they are doing this that
there is an emergency in progress.

My ears would explode.)

Your ears already exploded when the aircraft cabin went from an
effective altitude of 8000 feet to 36,000 feet in a few seconds when
the depressurization occured.

The second Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think
you're ready to solo' and gets out. The main character starts
to taxi and then other non-flying plot developments happen.
I was wondering if taking your FIRST solo flight is that simple.

That's about how it happens. Technically, the student pilot's certificate
and logbook need to be signed to authorize the solo flight...but that's
pretty much how it happened to me. The instructor figured I was ready,
did a couple of landings with him (without him indicating that I might be
ready for solo) and then he got out. It was at a controlled field, so
shortly after takeoff, the controller asked how much better it flew
without
that fat guy in the right seat.

Wouldn't the first time soloist
have to fill out some forms, file a flight plan with the
airport and maybe even do a complete pre-flight check on the
aircraft?

It wasn't Washington, it was "supposed" to be Frederick, Maryland about 50
miles NW
of DC. No flight plan is required, and the pre-flight check was done
before they took off
the first time together, so there isn't much reason to do another.

Of course, most of the rest of that movie, including to stupid diversion
to FDK rather than
Dulles (the Dulles runways are much wider and over twice as long as FDK),
etc...

In the pressure chamber,
from 25000 to sea level is instantaneous and you do a sustained
burp-and-fart.

Bob Gardner

Other way around Bob. (sea level to 25,000)

No way. You start off at sea level, of course, and they pump the chamber
pressure down to 25000 feet with masks on...then they do some experiments
with a few of the pilots taking their masks off, just to show how severely
their abilities are affected. Then comes the explosive decompression, which
takes the chamber from 25K back down to sea level in a second or two.

Bob Gardner

"Kiwi Jet Jock" wrote in message
...
In the pressure chamber,
from 25000 to sea level is instantaneous and you do a sustained
burp-and-fart.

Bob Gardner

Other way around Bob. (sea level to 25,000)

I think what Kiwi meant was that you do the "burp & fart" going from SL to
250, when the pressure outside the body is decreasing, as opposed to from
250 to SL, as you posited, when the external pressure would be *increasing*
rapidly.

JG



"Kiwi Jet Jock" wrote in message
...
In the pressure chamber,
from 25000 to sea level is instantaneous and you do a sustained
burp-and-fart.

Bob Gardner

Other way around Bob. (sea level to 25,000)



No way. You start off at sea level,

Bob Gardner wrote:
Then comes the explosive decompression, which
takes the chamber from 25K back down to sea level in a second or two.

Bob Gardner

Just an observation......
Wouldn't the above statement be "implosive compression".

Not trying to stir the pot

WW

During the explosive decompression portion of my Air Force altitude chamber
training, we sat in a small chamber adjacent to the larger main chamber with
our masks off. The airtight door between the two chambers was closed. The
large chamber was evacuated to 50,000 feet, or so. We were at about 10,000
feet and had our masks off.

Without warning, the hatch between the chambers was suddenly opened. There
was a loud bang, and the pressure in the two chambers very quickly equalized
to about 30,000 feet. The whole chamber filled with thick fog. I felt for my
mask and put it on.

Ever after, I have been amused at the flight attendant's briefing, "In the
unlikely event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, the oxygen masks in front
of you will automatically deploy. Simply put the mask over your mouth and
nose and breath normally. Etc. etc."

Yeah, right! First there's a loud bang and everyone thinks a bomb has gone
off. Then the cabin fills with super cold thick fog. The pilot puts the
plane in a dive to get to breathable air and the masks are hanging a couple
feet in front of you. I think it would be absolute chaos.

Have any of you experienced an actual explosive decompression while in
flight?

Jon

"Bob Gardner" wrote
No way. You start off at sea level, of course, and they pump the chamber
pressure down to 25000 feet with masks on...then they do some experiments
with a few of the pilots taking their masks off, just to show how severely
their abilities are affected. Then comes the explosive decompression, which
takes the chamber from 25K back down to sea level in a second or two.

Bob, what you have described is "explosive compression" not "decompression".

I would reccommend this web site to clear-up the confusion:

http://www.wvi.com/~lelandh/Alt_Chamber.htm

Bob Moore