Catastrophic Decompression; Small Place Solo

Basically, the pilots need to get their masks on and get the plane down below
25,000' as rapidly as it can possibly be done.

A couple links to the sad story of Payne Stewart a few years ago. I was
working in Minnesota and there was great consternation as the plane autopiloted
its way across a corner of the state and the military wondered if it would be
necessary to shoot it down. Had it come much closer to a big city, they would
have had to make that decision.

http://www.newsmax.com/articles/?a=1999/10/25/164032

http://www.cnn.com/US/9910/26/shootdown/

The NTSB report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2000/AAB0001.htm

I'd always assumed, as many did, that something catastrophic happened shortly
after takeoff, like a window failing, and the pilots didn't even have time to
get oxygen masks on. A friend suggests it never pressurized, which makes one
wonder whether they could become anoxic to the point they were helpless even
without a catastrophe, if they didn't realize the cabin was never
pressurizing...but lots of folks have told me about the foolishness that comes
with lack of oxygen. The full report makes fascinating reading...accident
investigation includes lots and lots of stuff.

Don't believe ANYTHING you see on TV or in the movies about aviation

In my case, the warning about explosive decompression came from a
BRITISH AIRLINE SECURITY CONSULTANT, speaking on an NPR station. So
clearly the myth extends far beyond Hollywood. This man was presented
as making a living from his special knowledge!


all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

On Tue, 30 Dec 2003 19:43:55 -0800, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote:

Aviation wrote:

On the one hand, passengers need to get denser air to breathe
but large aircraft have oxygen masks that drop down.

[snip]

As for your ears, they're already toast. The pressure just dropped
from the pressure at 8,000' to that at cruise altitude in a few seconds.

Based on what others have written about chamber simulations, it would
appear that irreversible ear damage (which is what I would infer as
being "toast") is not an inevitable consequence, although. I've no
doubt that the sensation from any reversible consequences is not
always pleasant .

Basically, the pilots need to get their masks on and get the plane down below
25,000' as rapidly as it can possibly be done. The descent to 10,000' can be made
a little more leisurely, but not much - there's always someone in the cattle
section who panicked and isn't wearing a mask.

One aspect that I have not seen addressed in this thread is the fact
that most oxygen systems can provide supplemental oxygen for a few
minutes only (I dimly recall figures like 3-5 minutes, but that may be
inaccurate). The pilots also need to get down to 10,000 feet within
that time before everyone's oxygen generators run out.

Regards,

George
************************************************** ********************
Dr. George O. Bizzigotti Telephone: (703) 610-2115
Mitretek Systems, Inc. Fax: (703) 610-1558
3150 Fairview Park Drive South E-Mail:
Falls Church, Virginia, 22042-4519
************************************************** ********************

I was hoping this medium would be faster than renting the flick. Besides,
many publically accessible information regarding celebrities are ususally
cryptic. Ever seen a privately-owned plane registered under a corporation?



"David G. Nagel" wrote in message
...
Get the tail number and look it up...



Marco Leon wrote:
"Aviation" wrote in message
u...

The second Hollywood inspired question comes from Executive
Decision (1996). The main character is taking flying lessons
in a single prop 2-seater plane and lands. The plane is still
running (on the ground) and his instructor says, 'I think
you're ready to solo' and gets out. The main character starts
to taxi and then other non-flying plot developments happen.
I was wondering if taking your FIRST solo flight is that simple.

The location in the film in Washington, DC but I figure all
US flying is FAA regulated. Wouldn't the first time soloist
have to fill out some forms, file a flight plan with the
airport and maybe even do a complete pre-flight check on the
aircraft? Is the simplified movie solo flight completely
bogus or could it happen that way?



Yes as mentioned by others, the first solo is usually that easy (with a
couple of signatures in your logbook)

The plane in Executive Decision was a Bonanza that has 4 or 6 seats
(model
F33 or A/B36 respectively. Not sure which was in the movie) and Kurt
Russell
is a pilot in real life. That plane could have very well been his own
Or
at least he may have been flying it during the filming. Anyone know??

Marco



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"Hamish Reid" wrote in message news:hamishxyz-

I think this is a good guess. It sort of looks like the top of a can of
parmesan cheese.

Parmesan cheese comes in *cans*?! Maybe I've lived in the Bay Area too
long :-).

Well, the good stuff comes in chunks that you grate yourself. But most of America
eats this Kraft simulation that comes in a shaker can with a little twisty top on it.

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:d0oIb.79631$VB2.161783@attbi_s51...
I just measured my Kraft 8oz container of grated Parmesan...2 3/4 inches.
Close enough?

Bob Gardner

Well, maybe close enough. That stuff in the Kraft can might qualify as
some kind of 'Parmesan-like substance', but I'd hestiate to call it
real Parmesan cheese. I'd only consider putting it on my pasta if I'd
had way too much wine to drink beforehand.


"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:cLmIb.79193$VB2.159840@attbi_s51...
I have no direct knowledge of how big an airliner
outflow valve is, but I am going to guess three inches in diameter

I think this is a good guess. It sort of looks like the top of a can of
parmesan cheese.

"One's Too Many" wrote in message om...
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:d0oIb.79631$VB2.161783@attbi_s51...
I just measured my Kraft 8oz container of grated Parmesan...2 3/4 inches.
Close enough?

Bob Gardner

Well, maybe close enough. That stuff in the Kraft can might qualify as
some kind of 'Parmesan-like substance', but I'd hestiate to call it
real Parmesan cheese. I'd only consider putting it on my pasta if I'd
had way too much wine to drink beforehand.


Here's a picture of some outflow valves as well as the pressure relief port that
Bob described. The outflow valve doesn't look like the cheese style one that
I was thinking of:
http://www.b737.org.uk/pressurisation.htm

The cheese one sort of looks like a metal disk with triangles in it that are opened
and closed by rotating the triangles expose the underlying holes in the valve.

By the way, I actually have pictures of LongEZ cockpit vent that was literally the
top of a parmesan cheese can.

"Ralph Nesbitt" wrote in message
m...

"Jeff Franks" wrote in message
...

Witnessed the result of "Port Hole Window" on the starboard side of a C-5
blowing out during "Initial Factory Pressure checks" on a new C-5". The
window itself went through the side of a "Tin Sided Building" ~ 200' from
where the window/port hole came from. A substantial number of the
insulation/batting blankets were torn from their normal place in the cargo
bay & piled on the cargo bay floor near the opening. A large number of the
insulation blankets/bats, along with seat cushions from the upper aft
troop
compartment were piled around the entrance to the stairs from the troop
compartment down to the cargo bay, plus scattered along the cargo bay
floor
in the direction of the failed port hole/window. Seat cushions, mattresses
from bunks, & insulation bats/blankets from the upper front area were
piled
against the exit stairs from the upper from lobe & along the cargo bay
floor
toward the failed port hole/window. A few of the insulation bats/blankets
were blown out the failed port hole/window.

A/C being tested were instrumented to record/document test protocols as
appropriate. According to instrumentation on the A/C, at time of port
hole/window failure the air pressure dropped from 14.5 lbs to 0 in .003
seconds.

Factory Pressure Check on C-5's was 15 pounds, slightly over 1 atmosphere.
This was worked up to in stages. This incident occurred.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type


This is not the same situation. First the preasurization was set to twice
what it will be in flight. Second the preasure dropped because the engines
were not pumping air in. Take a bicycle tire pump it up to 8psi (almost
flat) and then let the air out. This it the same preasure differential.

Mike
MU-2

And if you've ever had to service the filter on one of them, you'd gag and vomit
at the next cigarette you saw (back in the '60s, when smoking was all the rage
on the airplane).

There's a hell of a good question -- why did the OUTFLOW valve on the 727
(located on the starboard side of the aircraft back in the aft airstairs
compartment) have a FILTER on it?

Jim


"Ron Natalie"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:cLmIb.79193$VB2.159840@attbi_s51...
-I have no direct knowledge of how big an airliner
- outflow valve is, but I am going to guess three inches in diameter
-
-I think this is a good guess. It sort of looks like the top of a can of
-parmesan cheese.



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

To keep debris from clogging the valve?

Mike
MU-2

"Jim Weir" wrote in message
...

And if you've ever had to service the filter on one of them, you'd gag and
vomit
at the next cigarette you saw (back in the '60s, when smoking was all the
rage
on the airplane).

There's a hell of a good question -- why did the OUTFLOW valve on the 727
(located on the starboard side of the aircraft back in the aft airstairs
compartment) have a FILTER on it?

Jim


"Ron Natalie"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-
-"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:cLmIb.79193$VB2.159840@attbi_s51...
-I have no direct knowledge of how big an airliner
- outflow valve is, but I am going to guess three inches in diameter
-
-I think this is a good guess. It sort of looks like the top of a can of
-parmesan cheese.



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com