PLEASE NEED HELP with Cherokee 180 metal bulkhead problem under back seat

The accident was in British Columbia. The guy ran out of gas about 1/4 mile
short of Nimpo Lake.

Karl

C185E, airworthy in '99, engine in '69. That reads about right for
something that slipped through the cracks for awhile...

Nothing shows up in a NTSB or FAA accident search either... Scary...

"kage" wrote in message
...
That's a good question. I think I'll look up serial numbers on the net
right now.


Well, the serial numbers still match:

My airplane N2764J--------Ser#1514
N2777J-----------------------Ser#1527


Might be a different airplane with the same ser# and N#, But that's still a
bunch of hanky-panky.

Karl

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 09:18:52 -0600, Newps wrote:



C wrote:

Talking with the DER, we're pretty sure we figured out when this
happened. The only damage history on the plane was an "off-runway"
excursion back in '92. The logs show the nose gear collapsed, the
engine/cowl stuck, and of course a sudden engine stop. The logs show
the engine teardown/rebuild and replacing everything forward of the
firewall, but that's it. We're pretty sure the sudden rearward force
on the mains as it departed the runway flexed the rear of the wing
upward and caused this damage.

So you're saying the plane hit a berm or something. Or are cherokees so
cheaply built taking them off pavement one time causes them to crack apart?

They're pretty rugged.
The off runway excursion probably took it through a shallow ditch, or
hit something with the nose gear. I've landed a Cherokee 180 on a
short, rough, sod field a good many times with no damage.

OTOH I saw a couple of self conscious guys working in a hanger with
the door only part way open. (No it wasn't me!*) :-))

They were trying to drive out a dent about 8 or 10 inches in from the
first rib at the tip on a 180. As I recall the dent was a good 4 or 5
inches deep. This was the result of a high, hot, humid, and heavy take
off and a very close encounter with a line of trees. It also cleaned
the wing tips lights right off.

Even with that kind of damage the FBO found nothing out of kilter with
the spars, or attach points.

Now, that was a few years back and I may not have the dimensions
exact, but the point was no damage to the spar, or carry through.

Which reminds me, that same plane some years back, had an off runway
excursion that ended up with the nose strut being broken and a prop
strike (No that wasn't me either*) :-))

The pilot had been flying late in the day and on coming back to the
airport discovered the pilot controlled lighting did not come on.
There was a bright, full moon and the ground was snow covered making
the runway stand out so he figured .. No problem. Unfortunately there
was a problem. When he was in the flare he discovered that runway
that stood out so well against the snow was now almost invisible. He
said he was doing OK until he saw the edge of the runway drift by.

He could have easily landed between the runway and taxiway as well.
The tail draggers do it all the time, but unfortunately he was
carrying extra speed. Wayyy to much extra speed. He sat it down on
the snow covered sod and was doing well until he reached a crossing
taxiway. Even the taxiway presented no problem, but the shallow ditch
on the other side did. He went down through the wide, shallow, ditch
and back up on the sod where he stopped.

Even at this point he was almost OK, but he figured he'd just taxi
back as he only had to turn slightly to catch the drive he had just
missed, that crosses the ditch. Unfortunately he didn't know the nose
strut was already broken. When he applied power it just fell back,
dropping the nose and resulting in a prop strike.

Cherokees are a tad nose heavy, but nothing like the 235/Dakota. One
thing to check on them is fire wall wrinkles, just like on the Cessna
182s.

* (Like most pilots I have done my fair share of "dumb stunts", but
these are not among them) :-))

BTW, that 180 is still flying and I think it's had about 7000 hours
since the off runway excursion and maybe 5,000 since the "bump job".
I know they've worn out 2 engines going through TBO twice on each.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

C wrote:

Apparently he didn't feel that the little damage to the frame member
was worth mentioning or repairing correctly.

Perhaps he didn't notice at the time.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Oh, he noticed alright... He shot a couple cherry-max rivets up from
the bottom into the flange that had torn away from the belly skin.
Didn't even get them tight! That's the whole half-assed repair he did
on this damage. You can see the rivets in the first picture.

Chuck



On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 03:30:01 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:

C wrote:

Apparently he didn't feel that the little damage to the frame member
was worth mentioning or repairing correctly.

Perhaps he didn't notice at the time.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

Well,

For anyone who was following -- we finished up the last of the repairs
yesterday and the last paperwork today. And I took her out for an
hour or so to check everything.

I'll have to post the whole story soon, when I have a bit of time.
But I learned a lot about FAA rules, 337s, DERs, 8110.3s, and other
red tape that comes with repairing damage to a certified plane. It
might help others -- but it IS one big pain!!!

Of course, it wasn't helped by a local FSDO Airworthyness Inspector
who didn't know his **** and kept pulling rules out of thin air. My
A&P and IA laughed most of the time and blew him off -- but it kept
putting a stop to the repair process and drew it out to three weeks to
do a three day job. That's OK, I'm filing a formal complaint -- we'll
see how much he learns after that...


Chuck
N7398W




On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 03:28:58 GMT, C wrote:

Hi folks,

I ran into a little problem today.

Working on a 100hour just a month before the annual is due -- my
mechanic and I lifted the back seat to look at the cabling underneath.
Lo and behold -- we found a "tear" in an aluminum bulkhead under the
back seat.

The bulkhead is under the back of the rear seat and doesn't appear to
be structural as it is thin aluminum. But there is a steel brace
coming in from the flap area of the wing and rivited to the lower
outside corner of the aluminum bulkhead.

However on mine, just next to the steel brace on the baggage door side
-- there is a inch long tear up from the bottom of the bulkhead and a
small buckle in the aluminum brace above the tear. Its like there was
a terrific upwards stress on the bottom corner of the bulkhead where
the steel is rivited and it tore the aluminum bulkhead upwards.

Has anyone run into this problem before? I'd love to hear what had to
be done to repair/replace the damage. Maybe someone knows of a 337
that had been done to repair similar damage??? It would sure help my
mechanic who is a little unsure of where to start in the repair
process.

Thanks guys...



Chuck
N7398W

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 06:41:25 GMT, Chuck wrote:

Of course, it wasn't helped by a local FSDO Airworthyness Inspector
who didn't know his **** and kept pulling rules out of thin air. My
A&P and IA laughed most of the time and blew him off -- but it kept
putting a stop to the repair process and drew it out to three weeks to
do a three day job. That's OK, I'm filing a formal complaint -- we'll
see how much he learns after that...

Picking a fight with the FAA? Careful - don't get Bob Hoover'ed.

Chuck wrote:
: Well,

: For anyone who was following -- we finished up the last of the repairs
: yesterday and the last paperwork today. And I took her out for an
: hour or so to check everything.

: I'll have to post the whole story soon, when I have a bit of time.
: But I learned a lot about FAA rules, 337s, DERs, 8110.3s, and other
: red tape that comes with repairing damage to a certified plane. It
: might help others -- but it IS one big pain!!!

I'm very interested to hear about it.

-Cory

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************