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#1
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Was the EFA coalition a mistake for the Brits?
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:54:28 -0700, hobo wrote:
The Eurofighter started as a British project and then they brought in other countries, some of whom then left and then some came back and politically it has been a big mess. Would the Brits have been better off doing what became the Eurofighter on their own? By better I mean have a better plane finished sooner and for less money or some combination of these qualities which would push it ahead of what they have now, or will have if they ever finish it. The Brits wouldn't have ever been able to field such an advanced system as the current eurofighter who's design owes much to the German TKF90 design. The UK would no doubt have designed a good aircraft, and perhaps a couple of demonstrators and thats about it. Collabration does a lot to keep the program going, it might slow it a bit, but it will keep going, and the engineering ideas from multiple sources is good, the solutions (in the main) are even better. There has been some conjecture that the EAP would have been a good fighter in the 1990, as a flying platform is was adequate, systems wise it was almost non existant - it would have ended up as a basic sporty Tornado F.3. The Eurofighter is much much more than that, it has huge potential and providing the political will is there, the excellent cutting edge engineering will come together... Cheers John Cook Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them. Email Address :- Spam trap - please remove (trousers) to email me Eurofighter Website :- http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk |
#2
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"John Cook" wrote in message ... On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:54:28 -0700, hobo wrote: The Eurofighter started as a British project and then they brought in other countries, some of whom then left and then some came back and politically it has been a big mess. Would the Brits have been better off doing what became the Eurofighter on their own? By better I mean have a better plane finished sooner and for less money or some combination of these qualities which would push it ahead of what they have now, or will have if they ever finish it. The Brits wouldn't have ever been able to field such an advanced system as the current eurofighter who's design owes much to the German TKF90 design. The UK would no doubt have designed a good aircraft, and perhaps a couple of demonstrators and thats about it. Collabration does a lot to keep the program going, it might slow it a bit, but it will keep going, and the engineering ideas from multiple sources is good, the solutions (in the main) are even better. There has been some conjecture that the EAP would have been a good fighter in the 1990, as a flying platform is was adequate, systems wise it was almost non existant - it would have ended up as a basic sporty Tornado F.3. And the TFK90 would be different how? It was purely a concept for the airframe, same really as EAP. If EAP (or TFK90) had actually went on to be full aircraft, then the systems would have come along. Don't forget the first 2 Eurofighter development aircraft have practically no weapon system integration - they are envelope expanision aircraft |
#3
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On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:54:28 -0700, hobo wrote:
The Eurofighter started as a British project and then they brought in other countries, some of whom then left and then some came back Which countries left and came back? Eurofighter was originally British, German and Italian. Later Spain joined. and politically it has been a big mess. Would the Brits have been better off doing what became the Eurofighter on their own? By better I mean have a better plane finished sooner and for less money or some combination of these qualities which would push it ahead of what they have now, or will have if they ever finish it. Cynic that I am, I'd be very surprised if more MoD input on *any* project led to it being quicker or cheaper. -- "It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia (Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk) |
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:37:17 +1000, John Cook wrote:
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:54:28 -0700, hobo wrote: The Eurofighter started as a British project and then they brought in other countries, some of whom then left and then some came back and politically it has been a big mess. Would the Brits have been better off doing what became the Eurofighter on their own? By better I mean have a better plane finished sooner and for less money or some combination of these qualities which would push it ahead of what they have now, or will have if they ever finish it. The Brits wouldn't have ever been able to field such an advanced system as the current eurofighter who's design owes much to the German TKF90 design. If Sweden (population 9 million) can design and build a modern fighter, I'm sure Britain (population 60 million) could. -- "It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia (Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk) |
#5
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"phil hunt" wrote If Sweden (population 9 million) can design and build a modern fighter, I'm sure Britain (population 60 million) could. They can design it. Could they (would they) pay for it on their own? Pete |
#6
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"Pete" wrote in message ... "phil hunt" wrote If Sweden (population 9 million) can design and build a modern fighter, I'm sure Britain (population 60 million) could. They can design it. Could they (would they) pay for it on their own? Pete Part of the idea of these multinationl designes is to lock several countries into being customers and to make it politically difficult to withdraw. Britain has a reputation for cancelling its own Brilliant designes and ****ing the money up the wall on inept politics. Germany has had some of the most advanced concepts, including stealth when it was not a fashion, of any country but they never get past the technology demonstators stage because (mainly left) wing politics usually leads to cancellations. The Germans also have enormous political problems in exporting so they need to link into someone elses program. The French generally don't get involved in major programes because they don't want any export restrictions. If they do get involved in a program they eventualy seem to come up with their own version of a missile. In General will power and direction and a sense of autonomous independence is missing in the west: We don't know what we are and what we stand for accept vague concepts such as 'diversity' or whatever is in vogue. The willpower doesn't exist. While there are reasons for having a strong military the history of the misuses and abuses of the US military really don't endear the idea of a large armed forces to most people. |
#7
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"Pete" wrote in message .. .
"phil hunt" wrote If Sweden (population 9 million) can design and build a modern fighter, I'm sure Britain (population 60 million) could. They can design it. Could they (would they) pay for it on their own? Pete Who's paying it for them? |
#8
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:51:38 GMT, Pete wrote:
"phil hunt" wrote If Sweden (population 9 million) can design and build a modern fighter, I'm sure Britain (population 60 million) could. They can design it. Could they (would they) pay for it on their own? Britain spends a good deal more on its armed forces than Sweden does. -- "It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia (Email: zen19725 at zen dot co dot uk) |
#9
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"phil hunt" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:51:38 GMT, Pete wrote: "phil hunt" wrote If Sweden (population 9 million) can design and build a modern fighter, I'm sure Britain (population 60 million) could. They can design it. Could they (would they) pay for it on their own? Britain spends a good deal more on its armed forces than Sweden does. Spread around among many more types of equipment. Not knocking the Swedes, but do they have any carriers? Pete |
#10
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"phil hunt" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:51:38 GMT, Pete wrote: "phil hunt" wrote If Sweden (population 9 million) can design and build a modern fighter, I'm sure Britain (population 60 million) could. They can design it. Could they (would they) pay for it on their own? Britain spends a good deal more on its armed forces than Sweden does. In comparative terms there's not that much difference Sweden spends 2.1 % of GDP on its military while the UK spends 2.4% Keith |
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