We need an ASW-19 rebirth for $25,000

How and why, was the PW-5 made for so cheap?

Nobody can answer this because it proves you are wrong!

Basic sailplanes do not cost a fortune to build. There is a market for entry level gliders with a handicap of 1.00 for a reasonable price. Few pilots want to own a 40-50 year old fiberglass sailplane.

How much did an ASW-19 cost brand new in 1975?

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 8:20:45 PM UTC+3, Andrew Ainslie wrote:
...not to mention that they can't keep up with demand for their $200k gliders, what possible incentive do they have to do this?

I'm not sure that's true.

While manufacturers do tend to have a year or so delay from ordering to delivery, I don't think the queue is getting longer. They are producing gliders at, on average, exactly the same rate as new orders are coming in.

Are they losing potential orders because someone isn't prepared to wait a year, but would buy a new glider today if it was sitting in a showroom? Possibly some, but I don't think it's significant.

Security of employment for skilled workers, and the time taken to train new ones are quite enough to explain the queue. You can't hire someone if you can't guarantee them a year's work.

If someone came along with a firm order for 10000 gliders then they could expand and step up the production rate, with a delay of a couple of years.

No doubt DG is very happy to have a few dozen DG1000/1001 ordered by the world's airforces. but it's not enough to fundamentally change the production equation.

Chris,

It would be a huge mistake to put your energy into this pursuit. Here's a simple data point. Last year's US Club Class Nationals was held at Wurtsboro. Wurtsboro is an easy one day drive from the major population centers of the Northeast (Washington, Philadelphia, New York, Boston etc.) There are literally hundreds of true Club Class gliders based in this area and dozens of soaring Clubs (the "Club" in "Club Class"). There are thousands of licensed glider pilots as well.

Exactly three Club-Owned gliders showed up. Three.

Why the focus on individual ownership? The inventory/fleet is already here.. It's the qualified/interested pilots who are missing along with the support from Clubs and/or FBOs.

Data point number two. Our club (which sent 2 of the 3 Club gliders to Wurtsboro) has an LS4 and LS3 which we are very liberal with in terms of letting folks bring them to contests. We have over 120 members. Only 9 members flew those 2 gliders all of last year. 4 pilots accounted for 85% of the flying in those ships. Just down the road is an even bigger club which has a large, all-glass fleet including 2 true Club Class racers. They sent exactly zero competitors.

Erik Mann (P3)
ASG-29 and sometimes LS4 driver



On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 9:03:01 AM UTC-4, wrote:
This is a good discussion. The closest thing to what you're talking about is the HPH 304C. I recently emailed Sean Franke and asked for a quote and was told that nobody had ordered one since 2014. A bulk order with cheaper US made trailers may be the way to go. The other key component to this is currently there's only 1 Bank that has loans specific to gliders. Yes you can take out a home equity line to partially finance the latest and greatest, but clubs cannot do this. As the Chair of the Growth and Retention Committee I intend to spend some face time to see what can be done for clubs who have at least 50% equity in their glider. Such loans shouldn't require a Guarantor where the glider is new or newly used and worth more than $50k. One option is to have pledges in the event of a default (which isn't quite the same thing as being a Guarantor but ought to still help reduce the risk for a bank). The next question is, who wants to get into the glider Repo business? Hopefully this won't be needed though.

Your feedback is appreciated.

Chris Schrader, Chair of SSA's Growth & Retention Committee

Last years WGC club class was won in a glider valued under 15k dollars including all the accessories. It has never been cheaper than today to own a glider to compete with on a world level.

With declining numbers of glider pilots, a strong market for new high-end ships and virtually unlimited lifetime of used gliders, the availability of affordable gliders is really not an issue.

We don't need cheaper gliders until we can fix the declining membership issue.
In my club there are plenty of 35:1 to 40:1 gliders which have been up for sale for between $6000 and $16000 and they're not selling even after being advertised for two or three years. Single Astirs, ASW-15, etc.
I picked up a old 47:1 glider with trailer (Nimbus 2), refurbished it, installed some modern instrumentation and added a Mountain High O2 system for a total cost of under $20,000. Why would I want to purchase a more expensive, newer glider with less equipment and performance?
Even decent condition ASW 20's can be had for around the $25000 mark.

Where I live there are simply not enough students completing their training so the second hand market is abundant especially with the older members heading West one-by-one. A cheap, new glider is not going to fix that problem..

In my club there are plenty of 35:1 to 40:1 gliders which have been up for sale for between $6000 and $16000 and they're not selling even after being advertised for two or three years. Single Astirs, ASW-15, etc.

What is your location and is the ASW-15 still available?

On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c

High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It could well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.

At 14:24 16 March 2017, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:

Bruce Hoult;940673 Wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepko
wrote:-
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c-

High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It coul
well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.

Who cares? It's a lot more fun than a sailplane




--
gotovkotzepkoi


Winch in the US quoted as $30, so how much is an aerotow?

About $55 for a 2,000' tow.

Last time I did winch launch in the US it was $5 per snap. This was
with a club.

On 3/16/2017 1:55 PM, Vernon Brown wrote:
At 14:24 16 March 2017, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:
Bruce Hoult;940673 Wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepko
wrote:-
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c-

High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It coul
well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.
Who cares? It's a lot more fun than a sailplane




--
gotovkotzepkoi

Winch in the US quoted as $30, so how much is an aerotow?


--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 2:00:06 PM UTC-6, Vernon Brown wrote:
At 14:24 16 March 2017, gotovkotzepkoi wrote:

Bruce Hoult;940673 Wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2017 at 10:43:09 PM UTC+3, gotovkotzepko
wrote:-
This glider already exists; here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru0deQRIS8c-

High-deflection flaps, 14m wingspan, 20:1 L/D, 0.6 m/s sink. It coul
well be faster x-country than a 1-26. Not going to match a PW5 though.

Stuff weight shift control for a joke though.

Who cares? It's a lot more fun than a sailplane




--
gotovkotzepkoi


Winch in the US quoted as $30, so how much is an aerotow?

Winch $17/non-members $22
Aerotows $11 hookup + $1.30/100, non-members +$12