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#1
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
I'm seeing a lot of people leaving usenet quite publicly, in favor of
a moderated forum, because the signal to noise ratio on the group has become so poor. This is of course their right and decision. I don't intend to follow them, and that of course is mine. I will, however, point out some major advantages of an unmoderated, anonymous forum - like this one - for some of the topics we discuss. Aviation is a highly regulated activity. In fact, I can't think of any activity undertaken primarily for personal convenience or recreation that is regulated at anythink like the level of personal aviaiton. Cars, boats, motorcycles, parachutes, scuba - you name it, and the level of regulation is much, much lower. What's more, the regulations are out of touch with reality. Many are broken on a routine basis, especially by the more experienced pilots. At the same time, the FAA is full of busybody inspectors, some actually willing to follow up allegations of pilot infraction submitted by third parties. Any forum will, unfortunately, eventually contain a snitch - someone willing to take what is said on the forum and pass the information on to a third party in order to hurt the poster. It was done here, and as a result many went anonymous. Thus any forum that lacks effective anonymity limits discussion tremendously - it would be like a motorcycle forum where everyone had to pretend that we all ride the speed limit or less all the time, because if you admitted to intentionally taking those 45 mph curves at 70 or disabling your rev limiter, someone could call the highway patrol and get you investigated, and maybe get you fined or get your license suspended. Here's an example: There is a saying that if the pilot survives the accident, you will never learn what really happened. This is true - but incomplete. I've observed several accident and one incident (in- flight control failure not leading to an accident) investigations where I had inside knowledge - meaning I knew the people, organizations, and aircraft involved - and in no case did that critical inside knowledge wind up in the report. People were covering their asses - and understandably so. I wasn't about to say anything tot he feds either. As a result the NTSB reports read like works of fiction, and there was nothing useful to learn from them. With anonymity, I can (and have) posted such details here for people to learn from. That's not something I can reasonably do without anonymity. Note that what I'm talking about here is minimally effective anonymity - not enough to really keep anyone reasonably bright from figuring out who you are, but the sort that would give you plausible deniability and would significantly slow down a busybody FAA inspector. That's really all that any of the long time posters here have. The other issue is moderation. Moderation does generally help keep the off-topic backbiting to a minimum - but at a price. The price is that it has a chilling effect on controversy. It only chops off a fraction of 1% of the on-topic posts - but they're the most controversial fraction, the ones that challenge your most fundamental core beliefs, the ones that have the potential to teach you the most. That's the sort of thing that gets filtered by moderation. Too inflammatory. They're VERY hard to write, very time consuming to research, and nobody will bother if the moderator might just decide to kill it. Here's an example: Imagine if being a more conservative pilot made you more dangerous, not safer. And that most private pilots would be safer if they were less conservative, not more. That has to be wrong. Doesn't it? It goes against the grain. I can make a very solid case for it being true - here. Where some moderator doesn't decide to filter it out because it can't be right. Not on a moderated forum. No matter what the moderation policy might say about being only to keep the discussion on topic, there are some things you just can't say. Check out this link for a better explanation: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html There's no question that if all you are looking for is an online version of the pilot's lounge, a moderated forum is the way to go. It will be more polite, more congenial, more like a real pilot's lounge. Only if that's your goal - why not just go hang out at the real pilot's lounge at the airport? But hey - that's not my call to make. It's your choice. Michael |
#2
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 07:07:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael
wrote in : Note that what I'm talking about here is minimally effective anonymity - not enough to really keep anyone reasonably bright from figuring out who you are, but the sort that would give you plausible deniability and would significantly slow down a busybody FAA inspector. That's really all that any of the long time posters here have. So it would seem: Whois Record OrgName: Maytag Corporation OrgID: MAYTAG Address: 403 W. 4th St. N. City: Newton StateProv: IA PostalCode: 50208 Country: US |
#3
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
Larry Dighera wrote in
: On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 07:07:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael wrote in : Note that what I'm talking about here is minimally effective anonymity - not enough to really keep anyone reasonably bright from figuring out who you are, but the sort that would give you plausible deniability and would significantly slow down a busybody FAA inspector. That's really all that any of the long time posters here have. So it would seem: Whois Record OrgName: Maytag Corporation OrgID: MAYTAG Address: 403 W. 4th St. N. City: Newton StateProv: IA PostalCode: 50208 Country: US Good god. Bertie |
#4
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... Larry Dighera wrote in : On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 07:07:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael wrote in : Note that what I'm talking about here is minimally effective anonymity - not enough to really keep anyone reasonably bright from figuring out who you are, but the sort that would give you plausible deniability and would significantly slow down a busybody FAA inspector. That's really all that any of the long time posters here have. So it would seem: Whois Record OrgName: Maytag Corporation OrgID: MAYTAG Address: 403 W. 4th St. N. City: Newton StateProv: IA PostalCode: 50208 Country: US Good god. Bertie Well Larry, looks like the wannabe moderator caught ya. Morning Mr. Needsalife. |
#5
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in newssd3k.1358$Jh7.331
@newsfe21.lga: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message ... Larry Dighera wrote in : On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 07:07:49 -0700 (PDT), Michael wrote in : Note that what I'm talking about here is minimally effective anonymity - not enough to really keep anyone reasonably bright from figuring out who you are, but the sort that would give you plausible deniability and would significantly slow down a busybody FAA inspector. That's really all that any of the long time posters here have. So it would seem: Whois Record OrgName: Maytag Corporation OrgID: MAYTAG Address: 403 W. 4th St. N. City: Newton StateProv: IA PostalCode: 50208 Country: US Good god. Bertie Well Larry, looks like the wannabe moderator caught ya. Morning Mr. Needsalife. Morning? Bertie |
#6
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:57:30 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote in : Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.alien.v ampire.flonk.flonk.flonk |
#7
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
Larry Dighera wrote in
: On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 16:57:30 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote in : Newsgroups: rec.aviation.piloting,alt.usenet.kooks,alt.alien .vampire.flonk.flonk.fl onk Thanks. Almost forgot the flonk. Bertie |
#8
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
Michael wrote:
There's no question that if all you are looking for is an online version of the pilot's lounge, a moderated forum is the way to go. It will be more polite, more congenial, more like a real pilot's lounge. Only if that's your goal - why not just go hang out at the real pilot's lounge at the airport? But hey - that's not my call to make. It's your choice. Mich Your observations are respected of course but are not correct in my opinion. Anonymity has nothing at all to do with the quality of dialog on discussion groups. Anonymity is simply a tool of choice for the poster. The quality of information will either be good or bad as posted. Actually, the ONLY positive/negative aspect to anonymity that I have experienced on Usenet is the somewhat enlightening factor that defines every.....and I mean EVERY instance where a negative aspect can be attached to a specific poster on Usenet, that poster was/is using an online persona and not a real name. On the other hand, I've seen very few instances where a poster using a real name (and I mean first AND last name) was posting the kind of utter crap we've all been subjected to lately here on RAP :-) Your comment about "visiting a pilot's lounge" by visiting a moderated forum is in my opinion on it's face ridiculous. The discussion on the moderated forum is simply kept on topic by force instead of left to the individual poster. The truth is that BOTH Usenet and moderated forums can be useful IF the posters themselves can control the venue. Usenet, at least Usenet on the pilots forums, have demonstrated, and are demonstrating as we speak, inability to do this. THIS is the reason pilots are leaving these forums for the moderated forums. As you can see, I'm still posting here on this forum. I will suggest to you that what you will most likely see appear posted as answers to this post might very well finish making my argument. :-) Anyway, nice talking to you today. -- Dudley Henriques |
#9
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
On Jun 9, 2:31*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
The quality of information will either be good or bad as posted. Except of course some information is too dangerous to post without anonymity. Actually, the ONLY positive/negative aspect to anonymity that I have experienced on Usenet is the somewhat enlightening factor that defines every.....and I mean EVERY instance where a negative aspect can be attached to a specific poster on Usenet, that poster was/is using an online persona and not a real name. Demonstrably false. The most famous counter-example in the rec.aviation hierarchy would be Robert L. Bass. Michael |
#10
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On Anonymity, Moderated Fora, and Usenet
Michael wrote:
Demonstrably false. The most famous counter-example in the rec.aviation hierarchy would be Robert L. Bass. Michael I don't agree. Bass was an unusual case, and I emphasize the word case :-) Nobody said it's a perfect world out here. I'm simply making the case that moderated forums are a viable alternative to the Usenet open forum and for many people might be a better alternative. I agree with you that it's a choice decision and must be made by everyone based on their own personal views, and I respect your right to disagree with me or anyone else. For you and I, Usenet seems to work, but I can tell you from personal experience, that the majority body count on bad posting and harassment comes from those using a pseudonym on Usenet, Bass or no Bass! (is that a question? :-) -- Dudley Henriques |
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