Thermal right, land left

The problem comes when the warning
device fails because the battery is flat or the electricity
can't bridge the air gap.

I test the circuit before each flight.

My spoiler warning curcuit rigged between the landing gear and spoilers on my
Jantar. The switch for the landing gear only opens if the landing gear is down
and the button on the handle is fully up, indicating a positive lock on the
landing gears. The switch on the spoilers only opens when the spoilers are in
the fully locked position.

To test, I depress the button on the landing gear handle and pop the spoilers a
little. This activates the gear warning by closing both switches.

Just in case one of the switches fails during flight, causing the alarm to go
off, I can deactive the system to avoid a beep-beep-beep on a long flight. I
have a toggle switch mounted high on the panel to power the circuit. Right
next to the switch is a large red LED. If I chose to deactive the gear warning
system, the red LED goes on.



Jim Vincent
CFIG
N483SZ
illspam

Do not know the precise details of how the audio vario works, but the
idea is an audio tone is generated based on how fast air is moving
into/out of a fixed chamber.

Could you not take an audio vario, delete the chamber, and plumb the
vario to a "stall horn" type device?

The idea I have, is the vario makes no noise on the sitting on the
ground, but does make noise when exposed to airflow (specifically,
changing airflow due to climbing/descending). Same thing with a
"stall horn"....makes noise only when exposed to airflow.

Perhaps all we need to do is add a "T" fitting, some more tubing, and
a selection valve to our current audio vario. Plumb the new tubing to
a pitot bent at the tip to start picking up airflow if the plane
pitches up to the stall angle (rest of the time, the pitot would be
"flat" to the airflow and just measuring static pressure).

If this works, then all you have to do prior to landing, is switch the
vario's input from the normal TE probe to the new "angled pitot" AOA
probe. If you start hearing audio tone from the vario, lower the nose
to reduce AOA.

Anybody have comments on if this would work?

John

"Kirk Stant" wrote in message
om...
"Bill Daniels" wrote in message
...

All I can say is try it. If it doesn't do anything for you, rip 'em
off.
It's a pretty cheap experiment.

Bill Daniels


A few years ago I tried the same thing on an LS4. It worked, but was
so sensitive to yaw that the readings were not very useful.

I still wish I could have an audio AOA tone with the gear down (and
matched to the flap setting) that would indicate whether I was fast,
on-speed, slow, or REALLY SLOW (just like the good old F-4). Just
having a stall indication is unfortunately only giving the pilot some
of the information he really needs. And having an accurate audio tone
would allow the pilot to keep a lot more attention outside the cockpit
during the landing pattern (which is kinda nice).

It's really AOA that we fly when slow anyway, using airspeed as an
approximation...

Nice thing about AOA instead of airspeed is that it automatically
compensates for weight, so landing back immediatly after takeoff full
of water (rope break, aborted winch launch) would be a lot safer.

With the gear up, no audio but the AOA for min sink (regardless of
ballast and bank angle and adjusted for flap position), L/D max, and
best acceleration/min drag (when pushing out of a thermal) could be
shown with individual LEDs or a simple edge indicator, to give the
pilot an idea how he is optimizing his flying.

How about it, some smart person? I guarantee, once you fly AOA, you'll
never go back to chasing the ASI!

Kirk

I absolutely agree that AOA data would be invaluable for the reasons you
listed and that once a pilot became used to flying with AOA data, airspeed
data would look archaic. Getting data as good as you had on the F4 will not
be easy with a glider.

Bill Daniels

Hi John

Std Cirrus - I know the geometric lock needs adjusting...
Mine goes at 5-10kg which is WAY out of spec - although it was set by a
professional at last inspection.

Bruce

At 13:24 16 March 2004, Tony Verhulst wrote:
'This is a good point. The Skylane that I own a small
piece of has a horn that sounds about 10 kts before
the actual stall - and as such, is pretty useless,
IMHO. This is pretty typical for most power planes
and during a normal landing you expect it to go off.'

Tony
I fly power too and I have to disagree with you. The
stall warning is of great input to me. I want it to
go off during landing but not until I am within a couple
of feet of the ground if it is beeping at me when I
am still high on final Its input may save my life!
The same would be true of my Ventus as well! I have
many more hours in my Ventus than all of my power time
so it is not as likely that I would have a problem
in keeping the speed up but when flying different gliders
or other power aircraft, I appreciate a stall warning.
It is easy to get distracted and slow down your scan
of all of the instruments as well as looking for traffic
and maybe the trim is not set just right and the aircraft
starts to slow down on final. This is when it works
for me IMHO!

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...
Jon Meyer wrote:
I have no problem with people that fly any kind of
glider, I just think that as a one-class contest design
the PW5 was a complete failure, and that a class incorporating
an existing 20ish year old design would have been much
more succesful.

If you believe that, then the glider you desire so much would NOT be an
LS4, because at the beginning of the World Class discussions, the LS4
was only 5 years old and competitive in the Standard Class. So, using
your criteria, a "20ish year old design" would be a Standard Cirrus! It
costs just as much to build a Standard Cirrus as an LS4, would you buy
one, or would you say, "Why should I buy a World Class Cirrus when for
less money I can get a used LS4?".

Please check your history book.
The Std. Cirrus was on the market in 1969. The LS4 went into
production in 1981 and there were over 800 built by the time the PW5
was introduced in 1994.
But that doesn't really matter since the statement was: it would have
been more successful.

Todd Pattist wrote:
"K.P. Termaat" wrote:


The solution for a warning on air brakes unlocked prior to take off is quite
easy. Use a micro switch on the air brake handle and a pressure transducer

from a washing machine in series.

I'm confused as to why you need a pressure transducer. Just
put a microswitch on the Tost that detects the presence of
the towring, and wire that in series with the existing
sensor on the airbrakes. The airbrake sensor provides power
to both the gear sensor switch and the Tost sensor switch.
They both send power to the buzzer. If the brakes are
opened with the gear up or the ring inserted, your buzzer
goes off. Conversely, if the brakes are open and the ring
is inserted for the tow the buzzer sounds. Why wait until
you are rolling or in the air to sound the buzzer?
Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)

The pressure sensor would be great for a self-launching sailplane. It
would also avoid alerting when the pilot had the spoilers open purposely
at the start of the launch, as some pilots do to avoid wing drop or
running over the towrope. An alert in those situations might not be a
bad thing, as it would test the system, and the pilot would be fully
aware that he was causing it.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Owain Walters wrote:

At 20:42 15 March 2004, Eric Greenwell wrote:

pilots that don't even fly them, such as myself (I
fly an 18
m motorglider).


Eric,

Thanks very much. You have illustrated the whole problem
with the concept of the World Class beautifully.

A bunch of noisy psuedo-philanthropists

Not noisy: I think we've been quite restrained. I haven't even called
anybody "rubbish" yet.

Not psuedo: I believe I have contributed considerably to people's safety
and enjoyment of soaring over the 30 years I've been in the sport. And
that's what I think I am doing here, in this discussion, even though it
isn't contributing to YOUR enjoyment.

sitting around
praising the pros of the World Class when they havent
even flown,

I've flown two of them, and enjoyed it. I've also flown one of it's
competitors in the class, the Russia, and enjoyed it. I even flew it in
a Regional contest, letting my glider sit on the ground.

yet alone competed in the class and judging
by your glider choice (I am presuming an ASH-26e) have
absolutely no intention to.

An unpowered glider doesn't fit my desires, but I don't disparage them.
If I were a strong competitor, I'd go looking for a PW5 to borrow or
buy. Frankly, the the only way I'd be a winner beyond the local level in
the World Class would be if I could use the LS4 some people dream about
as the World Class glider.

--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Frankly, the the only way I'd be a winner beyond the
local level in
the World Class would be if I could use the LS4 some
people dream about
as the World Class glider.


Eric,

I dont get your point.... are you saying that if the
World Class glider was the LS4 you would win National
or International Compeition but as its a PW5 you cant?
Surely your skills/knowledge are relevant in a one
glider class regardless of which glider it is? Whether
it be a PW5 or a LS4.

Which brings us kind of full circle. The argument is
not against the World Class just against the requirements
and in turn against the PW5. As far as I can see the
requirements have killed any chance the World Class
had of success before it even started. And to be honest
I think there is enough evidence of that to prove that
it isnt just an opnion.

Personally I think the World Class has missed the boat.
The club class is taking over the 'Affordable competition'
section of competitive gliding.

Owain

"Jim Vincent" wrote in message
...
What about the towhook? Magnetic sensor? where? How? Other ideas

Install a strain gauge internal to the fuselage right up against the hook
mount. Get Peter Masak to design a simple circuit that trips an
electronic
relay when the strain exceeds a certain amount. Knowing Peter, it should
take
him less than an hour.

Jim, if you go that route, build the strain gauge to display the hook
tension to the pilot for the purposes of flying a winch launch.

Bill Daniels