Fly Boy ?????

Subject: Fly Boy ?????
From: nt (Gordon)
Date: 10/23/03 9:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

When I heard the story of Bush 41 surviving while
his crew perished I experienced a mental "Hmmm," but never went beyond that,
not knowing the details.

As a Navy backseater, I think we all went HMMMMMM when we heard the story the
first time.

I caught the author of "Flyboys" on C-Span recently
and listened to his presentation, as a result of which I ordered through our
local library the book, which hasn't come in yet. I hope it will clear up
doubts about what happened with Bush, as well as explain Japanese actions.
The
author seems to have spent as much time looking at Japanese motives from the
Japanese perspective as looking at the American side--something that's
pretty
rare.

Your assessment is spot-on. The book does exactly this: it gives historical
background to the imperial "climate" that the Japanese faced from European
and
American expansion in Asia, giving it as the main reason for the Japanese
military's climb to power and ultimate defeat. It gives an unflinching look
into how we were viewed by the Japanese, and just as importantly, why we were
seen that way. It was a grisly, horrible little book that I think deserves a
read, if only to answer the questions about Bush and the Japanese motivation
for what happened on Chichi Jima and other hellish places to die in the
Pacific.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR Aircrew


Had he ditched they may have all come out alive.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Had he ditched they may have all come out alive.

Certainly possible - the author goes to great pains to establish that Bush
himself still harbors doubt as to whether he did the right thing. He had an
aircraft that was barely controllable and any water landing would have been a
crash, not a ditch, and few Avenger crewmen survived in either event. Bush
states that he flew it in a manner that would slip the tail enough to the side
that his crew could get the escape door open without having to fight the
slipstream for as long as he safely could - he got no return call from the crew
and the aircraft was failing, so he left it. I don't know what else he could
have done, but at least one of his guys parachuted out, only to die in his
attempt. Having evaluated Bush's statements with a rather jaundiced crewman's
perspective, I'd say that Bush probably did all he could under that particular
set of circumstances. The fact that his decision still tortures him a lifetime
later leads me to believe he will never be comfortable with his choices that
day, but I think he was simply lucky to be alive.

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR Aircrew

"Got anything on your radar, SENSO?"
"Nothing but my forehead, sir."

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Had he ditched they may have all come out alive.


Or they all may have died.

Subject: Fly Boy ?????
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 10/23/03 11:45 AM Pacific Daylight Time

ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

Had he ditched they may have all come out alive.


Or they all may have died.



Less chance of that as experience has shown us.

"Autocollimator" wrote in message
...

Less chance of that as experience has shown us.


What is your experience in ditching the TBM?

in article , ArtKramr at
wrote on 2003/10/23 12:19:


Had he ditched they may have all come out alive.

My Uncle ditched an Avenger after running out of gas due to a
battled-damaged carrier and bad DF steer preventing a timely recovery.

His crew survived. He did not.

Tough way to win a DFC.



Jack

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Autocollimator" wrote in message
...

Less chance of that as experience has shown us.


What is your experience in ditching the TBM?

More to the point, what did the manufacturer have to say on that subject?

George Z.

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

More to the point, what did the manufacturer have to say on that subject?


I would think the operator would have better information on the ditching
behavior than would the manufacturer.

Steven asked:

e, but at least one of his guys parachuted out, only to die in his
attempt. Having evaluated Bush's statements with a rather jaundiced
crewman's
perspective, I'd say that Bush probably did all he could under that
particular
set of circumstances. The fact that his decision still tortures him a
lifetime
later leads me to believe he will never be comfortable with his choices that
day, but I think he was simply lucky to be alive.

I agree..I think trying to monday morning quarterback his decisions, 60 years
later, is rather pointless. He did what he thought he do to, and made a
decision. Part of being in command is making such decisions at that moment..


Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter