Getting new members

At 03:55 08 May 2011, Alan wrote:

One thing that time management classes suggest is using money to
"buy" time -- rather than spend more time working on things that
can be dealt with by spending money. (Probably why many pay the
gardener to mow the lawn.)

Of course, once I pay somebody else to mow my lawn, I can no longer afford
to buy a tow at the glider field. My approach is to do my own yard work,
thus saving the expense of a gardner, *and* getting some exercise, thus
avoiding the expense of a gym membership. Then I take that money to the
glider field.

Soaring with a club is still an affordable way to go, at least it *can* be
if that's what the club wants to offer.

Jim Beckman

At 03:55 08 May 2011, Alan wrote:

One thing that time management classes suggest is using money to
"buy" time -- rather than spend more time working on things that
can be dealt with by spending money. (Probably why many pay the
gardener to mow the lawn.)

Of course, once I pay somebody else to mow my lawn, I can no longer afford
to buy a tow at the glider field. My approach is to do my own yard work,
thus saving the expense of a gardner, *and* getting some exercise, thus
avoiding the expense of a gym membership. Then I take that money to the
glider field.

Soaring with a club is still an affordable way to go, at least it *can* be
if that's what the club wants to offer.

Jim Beckman

On May 7, 9:55*pm, (Alan) wrote:
Snip---
* You neglected one of the meaningful costs of winch launching ---
real estate. *You need a long enough runway to lay out enough cable for
a useful height of launch, and that runway needs to not be at a busy
general aviation airport, unless you like Cessna's running into the
cable, and the resulting pictures in the evening news.

US winch operations use public airports very successfully - and
safely. That shifts the 'real estate' cost to the taxpayer. When it
costs $500 to fill the tanks, there are a lot fewer of those Cessna's
flying. Those that do fly like the early morning for the smooth air.
Once the thermals start popping, the Cessna's get tied down.

* That said, winch launching does sound like fun. *What are various
views on how long it takes to learn it and qualify for the signoff to
be able to do it in the U.S.? *(Just in case a winch launch operation
ever does set up within practical single-engine power plane range of
here.)

I like to see a transition course of at least 30 launches. Not only
is there a lot to learn, much of it has to become instinctive before
you are safe.

* Yes, that refers to the basic issue that in some places, the good
gliding locations are at distances that are impractical for a day trip
by car. *Once the trip exceeds a day trip, it becomes impractical to
do frequently if there are any family responsibilities. *(For safety,
one probably wants to fly more than a couple times per year...)
The golf course, and the power airport, are both a lot closer for
most of us.


Again, the typical US pilot will drive alone 100 miles in his SUV to a
glider operation without giving a thought to ride sharing. Camping
at the gliderport isn't considered either. There are ways to deal
with this.

European clubs also expect their members to work on club equipment.
This "sweat equity" greatly reduces costs.

* Without an A&P mechanic supervising and signing off the work, the
options for the U.S. club members is more limited.

A club member can do any work on a glider an AI will sign off.
Besides, if you look carefully at what maintenance an owner is legally
allowed to do on his own, it covers almost everything a glider is
likely to need in the way of routine maintenance. I can't believe I
once saw a glider owner paying an A&P to put air in the tires.

Well, I think we need to take off our blinders and face reality.
Flying is no longer an exciting adventure; it's going through TSA
searches and being crammed into a tubular extrusion for hours without
food or entertainment. Or it's UAVs whacking bad guys, controlled
from an Air Base in Nevada.

There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
competitive aspects.

But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
expensive? Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
can get!

And forget homebuilding - the numbers will never be very big. The SSA
isn't the EAA, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately!).

The European model would appear to work better, judging by where all
the new gliders come from - more social aspects, bigger clubs with
better equipment (NO 2-33s!!!!), much greater emphasis on gliding as a
sport (XC, badges, OLC, racing, records) than as just twirlybirding on
a nice Saturday afternoon.

But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.

So what is the answer? Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.

Kirk
66

For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. Brought my Duo Discus
and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. We gave away
14 intro flights and collected a few donations. Two families are
very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
involved in soaring.

The glider was probably one of the bigger hits at the event and the
fact that it wasn't just a static display. On the Fresno news, the
glider apparently got the most time on air and two of the girls that
went for rides were interviewed.

Whether to call the even a success or not is a little hard to say.
From the club perspective, we didn't collect enough in donations to
pay for the fuel we burned. But 14 people got to taste a glider
flight and we did something that probably hasn't been done before in
that we brought glider operations to the heart of downtown Fresno.
Thermalling up over Hwy 99, the Zoo and right around downtown. Who
knows though many of these kids won't even be able to solo a glider
for many more years, but some club or soaring operation may benefit 20
years from now.

And a side benefit was that it was very soarable, so I typically only
took about 1000-1200ft tows and then thermalled up a little to show
people that these aren't just sled rides. We couldn't climb higher
than 2500 due to FAT Class C (I was Mode S equipped, but they denied
my request to climb into their shelf).

Things that I do think help and event like this. Go to a place that
hasn't seen glider ops, the novelty alone is going to draw attention.
Bring a beautiful glider out. Our club trains with 2-33's, we have
them and it's all we can afford, but realistically I think the Duo (or
any glass 2-place) has the appeal to ignite the spark. Now if we can
just retain them during training with the 2-33's.

The main thing was that it takes a lot of volunteer effort to support
an event like this. Tow Pilots, booth workers, donations of glider
time, etc...

Morgan
5H



On May 8, 9:45*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Well, I think we need to take off our blinders and face reality.
Flying is no longer an exciting adventure; it's going through TSA
searches and being crammed into a tubular extrusion for hours without
food or entertainment. *Or it's UAVs whacking bad guys, controlled
from an Air Base in Nevada.

There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
competitive aspects.

But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
expensive? *Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
can get!

And forget homebuilding - the numbers will never be very big. *The SSA
isn't the EAA, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately!).

The European model would appear to work better, judging by where all
the new gliders come from - more social aspects, bigger clubs with
better equipment (NO 2-33s!!!!), much greater emphasis on gliding as a
sport (XC, badges, OLC, racing, records) than as just twirlybirding on
a nice Saturday afternoon.

But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.

So what is the answer? *Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.

Kirk
66

On May 8, 10:45*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Well, I think we need to take off our blinders and face reality.
Flying is no longer an exciting adventure; it's going through TSA
searches and being crammed into a tubular extrusion for hours without
food or entertainment. *Or it's UAVs whacking bad guys, controlled
from an Air Base in Nevada.

There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
competitive aspects.

But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
expensive? *Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
can get!

And forget homebuilding - the numbers will never be very big. *The SSA
isn't the EAA, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately!).

The European model would appear to work better, judging by where all
the new gliders come from - more social aspects, bigger clubs with
better equipment (NO 2-33s!!!!), much greater emphasis on gliding as a
sport (XC, badges, OLC, racing, records) than as just twirlybirding on
a nice Saturday afternoon.

But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.

So what is the answer? *Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.

Kirk
66

Kirk, if they actually knew about us, I think there is a real
possibility of interesting 1 in a thousand (.1%) of the US
population. That's 300,000 new pilots. Should that happen, the
immediate problem would be we don't have the training gliders,
instructors or tow planes to handle that number. Nice problem to have
though.

On May 8, 1:17*pm, Morgan wrote:
For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. *Brought my Duo Discus
and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. *We gave away
14 intro flights and collected a few donations. *Two families are
very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
involved in soaring.

The glider was probably one of the bigger hits at the event and the
fact that it wasn't just a static display. *On the Fresno news, the
glider apparently got the most time on air and two of the girls that
went for rides were interviewed.

Whether to call the even a success or not is a little hard to say.
From the club perspective, we didn't collect enough in donations to
pay for the fuel we burned. *But 14 people got to taste a glider
flight and we did something that probably hasn't been done before in
that we brought glider operations to the heart of downtown Fresno.
Thermalling up over Hwy 99, the Zoo and right around downtown. *Who
knows though many of these kids won't even be able to solo a glider
for many more years, but some club or soaring operation may benefit 20
years from now.

And a side benefit was that it was very soarable, so I typically only
took about 1000-1200ft tows and then thermalled up a little to show
people that these aren't just sled rides. *We couldn't climb higher
than 2500 due to FAT Class C (I was Mode S equipped, but they denied
my request to climb into their shelf).

Things that I do think help and event like this. *Go to a place that
hasn't seen glider ops, the novelty alone is going to draw attention.
Bring a beautiful glider out. *Our club trains with 2-33's, we have
them and it's all we can afford, but realistically I think the Duo (or
any glass 2-place) has the appeal to ignite the spark. *Now if we can
just retain them during training with the 2-33's.

The main thing was that it takes a lot of volunteer effort to support
an event like this. *Tow Pilots, booth workers, donations of glider
time, etc...

Morgan
5H

Good on you Morgan and your group,

I just found out about events in my state with an online news blurb
yesterday. It didn't even mention the EAA chapter involved at my
local airport. Colorado events are scheduled for 5/21, so there may
be enough time to be involved.

Some soaring organizations may still find opportunities.
http://www.learntofly.org/findanevent.aspx

Frank Whiteley

Here are some pictures of the Saturday event.

https://picasaweb.google.com/morhall...ToFlyChandler#

It is definitely a different experience to be thermalling up over a
big city. Highway 99 was a literal highway of thermal activity. I
took one passenger about 10 miles out from the airport, all while
staying below 2500msl Class C (2200agl). Straight flying right up the
highway with no reason to turn. Averaged over 90 knots on the way
back and still had to pull spoilers to get down to the pattern.

It's fun to give back, but truthfully I am really looking forward to a
week of racing at our Avenal spring Contest this week.

Morgan



On May 8, 6:19*pm, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On May 8, 1:17*pm, Morgan wrote:



For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. *Brought my Duo Discus
and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. *We gave away
14 intro flights and collected a few donations. *Two families are
very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
involved in soaring.

The glider was probably one of the bigger hits at the event and the
fact that it wasn't just a static display. *On the Fresno news, the
glider apparently got the most time on air and two of the girls that
went for rides were interviewed.

Whether to call the even a success or not is a little hard to say.
From the club perspective, we didn't collect enough in donations to
pay for the fuel we burned. *But 14 people got to taste a glider
flight and we did something that probably hasn't been done before in
that we brought glider operations to the heart of downtown Fresno.
Thermalling up over Hwy 99, the Zoo and right around downtown. *Who
knows though many of these kids won't even be able to solo a glider
for many more years, but some club or soaring operation may benefit 20
years from now.

And a side benefit was that it was very soarable, so I typically only
took about 1000-1200ft tows and then thermalled up a little to show
people that these aren't just sled rides. *We couldn't climb higher
than 2500 due to FAT Class C (I was Mode S equipped, but they denied
my request to climb into their shelf).

Things that I do think help and event like this. *Go to a place that
hasn't seen glider ops, the novelty alone is going to draw attention.
Bring a beautiful glider out. *Our club trains with 2-33's, we have
them and it's all we can afford, but realistically I think the Duo (or
any glass 2-place) has the appeal to ignite the spark. *Now if we can
just retain them during training with the 2-33's.

The main thing was that it takes a lot of volunteer effort to support
an event like this. *Tow Pilots, booth workers, donations of glider
time, etc...

Morgan
5H

Good on you Morgan and your group,

I just found out about events in my state with an online news blurb
yesterday. *It didn't even mention the EAA chapter involved at my
local airport. *Colorado events are scheduled for 5/21, so there may
be enough time to be involved.

Some soaring organizations may still find opportunities.http://www.learntofly.org/findanevent.aspx

Frank Whiteley

On 9/05/2011 02:45, kirk.stant wrote:
....
There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
competitive aspects.

But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
expensive? Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
can get!
...
But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.

So what is the answer? Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.


I knew if this theme went on long enough somebody would say something
sensible and realistic.

Who knows, gliding may just be a 100-year novelty. In the years that
soaring was expanding, it wasn't because of national advertising
campaigns. Now it's declining, I doubt marketing will save it.

Who cares. If you enjoy it, do it while you still can. Your
smile-a-mile-wide enjoyment may well be the most enticing thing about
gliding.

GC

Kirk
66

At 19:17 08 May 2011, Morgan wrote:
For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. Brought my Duo Discus
and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. We gave away
14 intro flights and collected a few donations. Two families are
very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
involved in soaring.

We've done PR things like that, but not at such an expensive level.
Having a glider on display at the County Fair draws a lot of interest, and
all the kids want to sit in the cockpit. Several folks were *really*
interested, wanted to know where the airport was, sure to show up there
for a ride and maybe a lesson. Nobody ever shows up. We sort of gave up
on that approach as a waste of time and effort.

Maybe you'll have better luck.

Jim Beckman