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#1
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ethanol question
Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could
contain up to 10% ethanol. My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas. Quick research indicates 3 concerns: 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters. 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls. 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages. Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but unsure on overloading a sediment bowl.... I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns. Thanks, Dick |
#2
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ethanol question
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 11:46:58 GMT, "Dick" wrote:
Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could contain up to 10% ethanol. My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas. Quick research indicates 3 concerns: 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters. 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls. 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages. Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but unsure on overloading a sediment bowl.... I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns. Thanks, Dick for the reasons you mention I run my O-200 on 100/130 avgas with REM38E plugs. you have more worries than you've identified. bacterial contamination that is not often checked for in mogas. (surface of water stuff) UV deterioration of the fuel leading to waxy deposits settling out. a lot of your carby seals are actually leather. add that to your list. just bye the bye when I pulled apart a marvel schebler carby I was using, between the inlet filter and the needle seat was a lot of friable black gunk which is supposedly from mogas that was used previously. it was causing fuel dribbles after shutdown. |
#3
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ethanol question
"Dick" wrote in message
news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01... Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could contain up to 10% ethanol. My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas. Quick research indicates 3 concerns: 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters. 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls. 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages. Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but unsure on overloading a sediment bowl.... I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns. Thanks, Dick I am not flying at the present time, and I am really annoyed by the entire "gasohol" farce. (Brief Rant) E-10 is a more expensive product, contains as little as 96 percent of the energy, is generally regarded as less stable, and is the result of purely political decisions of questionable merit! (End of Brief Rant) OTOH, since it is an experimental and you have been using MoGas all along, you are more likely to know what materials are in the fuel system--if it was mine and the problem was the tanks, I would switch immediately to AvGas and avoid idling with rich mixture during warmup and taxiing. Some assistance regarding the hoses, seals, and gakets may be as close as: 1) The auto parts store--those guys have been on the "front lines" a lot longer, or 2) The nearest hose and o-ring suppliers for aircraft--who probably have product data sheets for what the sell. This is the first that I remember hearing of "phase separation" which may just mean that I forgot. However, there is at least one obvious way to test. Get something that can produce a good suction--a "feeding syringe" from the nearest feed store might be a good choice. Then, put some E-10 gasohol in a clear glass soda bottle, connect the bottle to the feed syringe with a sturdy hose (or something similar), pull back on the plunger, and see what happens. That should give you a way to take your fuel sample from about sea level to about 18000 feet in a hurry. Obviously, you would need to add some instruments and test at various temperatures to learn what might happen over a wide range of temperatures and altitudes; but a lot of us bloviate a lot on usenet and, with some very simple testing, you should be able to get an idea of whether the whole discussion really applies to your application. Peter P.S.: A home brew test for the actual presence of ethanol was discussed on this forum a few months ago. |
#4
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ethanol question
"Dick" ...
THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down, port, and starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please do your research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new one. Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that isn't willing to do the work before asking a very old question. Jim -- "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." --Aristotle "Dick" wrote in message news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01... Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could contain up to 10% ethanol. My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas. Quick research indicates 3 concerns: 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters. 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls. 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages. Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but unsure on overloading a sediment bowl.... I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns. Thanks, Dick |
#5
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ethanol question
"RST Engineering" wrote in message m... "Dick" ... THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down, port, and starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please do your research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new one. Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that isn't willing to do the work before asking a very old question. What's the harm. It's not like the daily message count is difficult to manage. You never can tell when there might be some new thinking or information, and you won't find that in the archives. |
#6
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ethanol question
Jim,
What's the problem?? I did do some net research but couldn't get any download this morning from the EAA site for whatever reason and apparently made the mistake to ask here what others are doing. Sorry, Dick Ripper Lakeland, Florida "RST Engineering" wrote in message m... "Dick" ... THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down, port, and starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please do your research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new one. Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that isn't willing to do the work before asking a very old question. Jim -- "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." --Aristotle "Dick" wrote in message news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01... Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could contain up to 10% ethanol. My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas. Quick research indicates 3 concerns: 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters. 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls. 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages. Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but unsure on overloading a sediment bowl.... I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns. Thanks, Dick |
#7
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ethanol question
"Dick" wrote in message news:Hre4k.2$2_.1@trnddc01... | Jim, | What's the problem?? I did do some net research but couldn't get any | download this morning from the EAA site for whatever reason and apparently | made the mistake to ask here what others are doing. | | Sorry, | Dick Ripper | Lakeland, Florida | | "RST Engineering" wrote in message | m... | "Dick" ... | | THis subject has been covered north, south, east, west, up, down, port, | and starboard in these newsgroups over the last two years. Please do your | research and investigation into prior threads before starting a new one. | Most folks who have posted good stuff just shine on somebody that isn't | willing to do the work before asking a very old question. | | Jim | | -- | "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought | without accepting it." | --Aristotle | | | "Dick" wrote in message | news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01... | Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could | contain up to 10% ethanol. | | My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas. | | Quick research indicates 3 concerns: | 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters. | 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase | separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment | bowls. | 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing | leaks/breakages. | | | Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but | unsure on overloading a sediment bowl.... | | I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns. | | Thanks, Dick | | | Here is an STC for Ethanol 100% for a C-152. http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Gu...B?OpenDocument Forum comments on it. http://www.pacificnorthwestflying.co...=1689.msg13664 Greg Poe using E85 in his aerobatic plane. http://ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=4274 -- Anyolmouse ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ---- http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups |
#8
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ethanol question
"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
... "Dick" wrote in message ... This is the first that I remember hearing of "phase separation" which may just mean that I forgot. However, there is at least one obvious way to ... Phase seperation is when you add water to the gas / ethanol mix and the ethanol / water seperates out. The ammount of water required to do this depends on the ethanol concentration and the temperature - so things might be OK on the ground where it's warm... The water / ethanol mix will be too "lean" for you engine and the gasoline left behind will have a lower octane than the gasoline / ethanol blend that may or may not be adequate for your needs. -- Geoff The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate. |
#9
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ethanol question
"Dick" wrote in message news:S084k.10872$kW2.67@trnddc01... Recently my gas station placed stickers on the pumps warning it could contain up to 10% ethanol. My ride is an experimental built in 1997 with a C-85 always run on mogas. Quick research indicates 3 concerns: 1-loosens debris inside the fuel system affecting filters. 2-mixes more readily with water (hydroscopic) but can experience "phase separation" during climbs causing water to overload filter/sediment bowls. 3-can deteriorate composites, rubbers and plastics causing leaks/breakages. Leaning towards more frequent gascolator inspections for 1 and 3, but unsure on overloading a sediment bowl.... I'm wondering how others are addressing these concerns. Thanks, Dick Running 100LL...sad but true. |
#10
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ethanol question
"RST Engineering" wrote Most folks who have posted good stuff " just shine on somebody" that isn't willing "just shine on somebody" ??? I've never heard that expression before. Must be a Californie-i-a" type of thing! g -- Jim in NC |
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