Self-launch v Sustainer

On 11/2/2016 10:02 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Would you drive a Chinese engineered and made car, I surely would not!

Sure I would. Why not?

Would I buy one? That's a different question!

I used to happily rent and fly a Chinese-made Cessna 162. Within its
LSA limitations, it's a perfectly nice little airplane.

Vaughn

Objections here to Solo self launchers are overdone. I changed to an Arcus M after several years with a Wankel rotary ASH 26. I have also flown an ASH 31. It is true that the ASH 26 is quieter and has a characteristically smooth sounding engine, but the injected and electronically controlled Solo in the Arcus is also reasonably smooth and is perfectly suitable for straight and level flight for self retrieves at about 85 knots. In the Arcus you need noise attenuating headphones, but that is not a big problem.

The Arcus Solo is quoted at 68 HP, whereas the Wankel in the AS 30, 31, and 32 is rated at 57 HP.

AS use a manual prop braking and lowering system which always worked well for me. The Arcus system is fully automated but more error prone. I would choose the AS system.

For me, it has to be a self launcher not a sustainer, although I accept that with modern sustainer technologies it is safe to leave an engine start till lower. I like independence of launch facilities, being able to put myself in the bit of the sky I choose, being able to take a high launch without thinking about the cost (even if total ownership cost is higher), and if I need to start the engine over a field knowing that it was working when I took off, and will get me up to a safe height at a decent rate.

Herb,

I knew about the umlaut, I just didn't know how to type it. Kinda like
super and subscripts. :-)

On 11/3/2016 3:49 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 3:42:22 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Touche and mea culpa!

My last job before retirement was with a German company. I traveled to
Nurnberg (yes, that's how they spell it) for training and to Mexico for
qualification of their (made in Germany) assembly line and it was the
most impressive thing I've ever seen. And my Ford truck was still
humming along just fine at 250,000 miles when a wind storm dropped a
very large tree on it. On my Chinese made motorcycle lift, I replaced
all the nuts and bolts before ever lifting my Harley on it...

On 11/2/2016 8:02 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
In theory, but I think culture influences design philosophy. I would trust a German engineered and produced product in a vehicle (air land or sea) long before I would trust a Chinese engineered product! Not intending to sound racist but **** China and there poisoned pet food, baby food, medicine, dog meat festival, children's custom jewelry made of heavy metals and **** their lead pollution. And don't even get me started on their CRM (cockpit resource management)....

German's do know how to make very quality products though, when they are not cheating instead of designing (VW group).

Would you drive a Chinese engineered and made car, I surely would not!

Jon

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 7:26:06 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
German, Japanese, American, Chinese... Engineering is engineering and
--
Dan, 5J
--
Dan, 5J
Dan, Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Nürnberg! You got it right except for the Umlaut. And I second your admiration for German Engineering.

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 4:02:20 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
... if I need to start the engine over a field knowing that it was working when I took off, and will get me up to a safe height at a decent rate.

I think most sustainer guys start the engine after the first thermal off tow and before leaving home area (30 second run or so)if they are going XC just to keep it lubed and operating. The guys that do this seem to always (mostly) have a working sustainer. The problem with self launcher is you are basically flying with a full load of undumpable ballast, so they are not very good weak weather birds. I think the wing loading (it has been 15 years) on my ASH-26E was close to 9 pounds, with a 200 lb pilot and a 20 pound chute.

On Saturday, October 29, 2016 at 1:17:47 PM UTC-7, Duster wrote:
Retired now and looking to purchase a motorized glider; weighing the pros and cons of self-launchers v sustainers. Two-placer is a priority, as I would like to take my wife. Single place acceptable as long as I can keep her happy sightseeing. We plan on extensive travelling, some to both established and unestablished (i.e., w/o tugs avail) soaring areas (esp. ridge/mountain/wave). Is the weight penalty the chief difference? Engine reliability? Maintenance? Minimum 18m? Some of you may recommend getting some first-hand experience at a commercial operation; where would that be?

Any feedback appreciated, even if just to eliminate models to stay away from.
Mike

On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 4:22:07 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Herb,

I knew about the umlaut, I just didn't know how to type it. Kinda like
super and subscripts. :-)

On 11/3/2016 3:49 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 3:42:22 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Touche and mea culpa!

My last job before retirement was with a German company. I traveled to
Nurnberg (yes, that's how they spell it) for training and to Mexico for
qualification of their (made in Germany) assembly line and it was the
most impressive thing I've ever seen. And my Ford truck was still
humming along just fine at 250,000 miles when a wind storm dropped a
very large tree on it. On my Chinese made motorcycle lift, I replaced
all the nuts and bolts before ever lifting my Harley on it...

On 11/2/2016 8:02 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
In theory, but I think culture influences design philosophy. I would trust a German engineered and produced product in a vehicle (air land or sea) long before I would trust a Chinese engineered product! Not intending to sound racist but **** China and there poisoned pet food, baby food, medicine, dog meat festival, children's custom jewelry made of heavy metals and **** their lead pollution. And don't even get me started on their CRM (cockpit resource management)....

German's do know how to make very quality products though, when they are not cheating instead of designing (VW group).

Would you drive a Chinese engineered and made car, I surely would not!

Jon

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 7:26:06 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
German, Japanese, American, Chinese... Engineering is engineering and
--
Dan, 5J
--
Dan, 5J
Dan, Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Nürnberg! You got it right except for the Umlaut. And I second your admiration for German Engineering.

--
Dan, 5J

Hi Dan,

I didn't either, so I looked it up. To type Ü hold down the ALT key while typing 0220. This and other accents are covered at http://symbolcodes.tlt.psu.edu/accents/codealt.html

Herb: LIGHTEN UP!

Tom

Doesn't work on my Asus/Windows 10... I'm sure I can figure out how -
just lazy...

On 11/7/2016 10:44 PM, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 4:22:07 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Herb,

I knew about the umlaut, I just didn't know how to type it. Kinda like
super and subscripts. :-)

On 11/3/2016 3:49 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 3:42:22 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Touche and mea culpa!

My last job before retirement was with a German company. I traveled to
Nurnberg (yes, that's how they spell it) for training and to Mexico for
qualification of their (made in Germany) assembly line and it was the
most impressive thing I've ever seen. And my Ford truck was still
humming along just fine at 250,000 miles when a wind storm dropped a
very large tree on it. On my Chinese made motorcycle lift, I replaced
all the nuts and bolts before ever lifting my Harley on it...

On 11/2/2016 8:02 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
In theory, but I think culture influences design philosophy. I would trust a German engineered and produced product in a vehicle (air land or sea) long before I would trust a Chinese engineered product! Not intending to sound racist but **** China and there poisoned pet food, baby food, medicine, dog meat festival, children's custom jewelry made of heavy metals and **** their lead pollution. And don't even get me started on their CRM (cockpit resource management)....

German's do know how to make very quality products though, when they are not cheating instead of designing (VW group).

Would you drive a Chinese engineered and made car, I surely would not!

Jon

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 7:26:06 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
German, Japanese, American, Chinese... Engineering is engineering and
--
Dan, 5J
--
Dan, 5J
Dan, Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Nürnberg! You got it right except for the Umlaut. And I second your admiration for German Engineering.
--
Dan, 5J
Hi Dan,

I didn't either, so I looked it up. To type Ü hold down the ALT key while typing 0220. This and other accents are covered at http://symbolcodes.tlt.psu.edu/accents/codealt.html

Herb: LIGHTEN UP!

Tom

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, November 7, 2016 at 11:44:45 PM UTC-6, 2G wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 4:22:07 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Herb,

I knew about the umlaut, I just didn't know how to type it. Kinda like
super and subscripts. :-)

On 11/3/2016 3:49 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, November 3, 2016 at 3:42:22 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
Touche and mea culpa!

My last job before retirement was with a German company. I traveled to
Nurnberg (yes, that's how they spell it) for training and to Mexico for
qualification of their (made in Germany) assembly line and it was the
most impressive thing I've ever seen. And my Ford truck was still
humming along just fine at 250,000 miles when a wind storm dropped a
very large tree on it. On my Chinese made motorcycle lift, I replaced
all the nuts and bolts before ever lifting my Harley on it...

On 11/2/2016 8:02 PM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
In theory, but I think culture influences design philosophy. I would trust a German engineered and produced product in a vehicle (air land or sea) long before I would trust a Chinese engineered product! Not intending to sound racist but **** China and there poisoned pet food, baby food, medicine, dog meat festival, children's custom jewelry made of heavy metals and **** their lead pollution. And don't even get me started on their CRM (cockpit resource management)....

German's do know how to make very quality products though, when they are not cheating instead of designing (VW group).

Would you drive a Chinese engineered and made car, I surely would not!

Jon

On Wednesday, November 2, 2016 at 7:26:06 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
German, Japanese, American, Chinese... Engineering is engineering and
--
Dan, 5J
--
Dan, 5J
Dan, Nürnberg, Nürnberg, Nürnberg! You got it right except for the Umlaut. And I second your admiration for German Engineering.

--
Dan, 5J

Hi Dan,

I didn't either, so I looked it up. To type Ü hold down the ALT key while typing 0220. This and other accents are covered at http://symbolcodes..tlt.psu.edu/accents/codealt.html

Herb: LIGHTEN UP!

Tom

Herb: LIGHTEN UP!
Hey, don't yell at me in caps, Tom. I'm totally relaxed. In Windows 10 go to 'Settings', then 'Time and Language', 'Region and Language' and select "Add Language". Install the German keyboard. To switch to the German keyboard you invoke the Windows key together with the space bar. Same for triggering back to English keyboard. I type in German a lot and am used to knowing where the specific German letters are located. The Ü,ü for example are under the {,[ keys. It is a bit involved and I apologize to Dan for being a dickish.

If you are curious about what it takes to disasemble a Stemme and considering a Cobra trailer instead of a hangar you may want to look at this video. The center panel is 400lb and needs to be lifted over the canopy....

https://youtu.be/ejpUGpZ2vhc

On Tuesday, November 8, 2016 at 12:27:29 PM UTC-8, Chris wrote:
If you are curious about what it takes to disasemble a Stemme and considering a Cobra trailer instead of a hangar you may want to look at this video.. The center panel is 400lb and needs to be lifted over the canopy....

https://youtu.be/ejpUGpZ2vhc

And the video of assembling an S10 by two pilots wearing very smart lab coats is even better. At least they don't have to pull off the nose cone. Love the collection of extra trailer parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Vtn-32cvY8

Is that Unterwössen? (Mit Umlaut)
Jim