A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Piloting
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

T-6 accident



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 18th 07, 09:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default T-6 accident

This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube
due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8
Ads
  #2  
Old November 18th 07, 02:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
WJRFlyBoy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 531
Default T-6 accident

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with Youtube
due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8


Can you assess the problem?
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!
  #3  
Old November 18th 07, 02:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default T-6 accident

WJRFlyBoy wrote in
:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube due to a plug-in I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8


Can you assess the problem?


What, with my browser or the accident?

The T-6 passed 90 deg (and even earlier) with his nose below the horizon.
He could have rolled back and saved it at that point, but he continued
around in the now awkward position of having to prevent further altitude
loss with excessive neg G which slowed him considerably and further skewed
the airplane's. The exit half was a classic dish. Everybody does 'em
sometimes.... Trick is to recognise a roll that's going to produce one
early enough to abandon it. This guy didn't.

The You tube extension add-on, I have no idea, but it's made a mess out of
my youtube fun!



Bertie
  #4  
Old November 18th 07, 08:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Darkwing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 604
Default T-6 accident


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube
due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8


What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video? Overstressed the
aircraft and it came apart? Very strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto



  #5  
Old November 18th 07, 09:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default T-6 accident

"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube
due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8


What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video?
Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto





Can't access it at the moment. Is it the one where the Partenavia loses
both wings at the same time?
There was a reference to an accident report in which th evideo was analised
and the airplane was estimated to be traveling at 220 kts, 25 over red
line, and the rate of rotation would have given a loading of over 8. Plenty
to pull most airplanes apart instantly.

Bertie
  #6  
Old November 18th 07, 09:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Darkwing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 604
Default T-6 accident


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube
due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8


What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video?
Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto





Can't access it at the moment. Is it the one where the Partenavia loses
both wings at the same time?
There was a reference to an accident report in which th evideo was
analised
and the airplane was estimated to be traveling at 220 kts, 25 over red
line, and the rate of rotation would have given a loading of over 8.
Plenty
to pull most airplanes apart instantly.

Bertie


No it is an F14 doing a high speed pass just above the deck, then it banks
and a just explodes. It is kind if surreal like a Hollywood plane crash.


  #7  
Old November 18th 07, 09:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default T-6 accident

"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube
due to a plug-in I think.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8


What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video?
Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto





Got it now. I have no idea. Doesn't look like he was doing anything wrong.
Maybe a mechanical malfunction. Catastrophic engine failure, maybe. Should
be something somewhere about it if oyu look around.


Bertie
  #8  
Old November 18th 07, 09:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,851
Default T-6 accident

"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"Darkwing" theducksmailATyahoo.com wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube
due to a plug-in I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8

What is the deal with the first crash shown in this video?
Overstressed the aircraft and it came apart? Very strange.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CnN9iIvVVto





Can't access it at the moment. Is it the one where the Partenavia
loses both wings at the same time?
There was a reference to an accident report in which th evideo was
analised
and the airplane was estimated to be traveling at 220 kts, 25 over
red line, and the rate of rotation would have given a loading of over
8. Plenty
to pull most airplanes apart instantly.

Bertie


No it is an F14 doing a high speed pass just above the deck, then it
banks and a just explodes. It is kind if surreal like a Hollywood
plane crash.




Yeah, found it after. Maybve it's just that, someone's idea of a joke..

Bertie


  #9  
Old November 18th 07, 09:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Big John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 310
Default T-6 accident

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:51:53 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

WJRFlyBoy wrote in
:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube due to a plug-in I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8


Can you assess the problem?


What, with my browser or the accident?

The T-6 passed 90 deg (and even earlier) with his nose below the horizon.
He could have rolled back and saved it at that point, but he continued
around in the now awkward position of having to prevent further altitude
loss with excessive neg G which slowed him considerably and further skewed
the airplane's. The exit half was a classic dish. Everybody does 'em
sometimes.... Trick is to recognise a roll that's going to produce one
early enough to abandon it. This guy didn't.

The You tube extension add-on, I have no idea, but it's made a mess out of
my youtube fun!



Bertie



Bertie

I made some comments on another post on this accident which was before
the video of the accident was posted.

I have looked at the strip probably 50 times and can't come up with
what I believe is a accurate analysis of what all happened and why.

1. Bird was in a shallow dive and picking up airspeed, above cruise,
when strip starts. This is a good entry technique.

2. Bird bottomed out and nose was raised above the horizon before roll
started. Again good technique.

3. After first 90 degrees of roll nose had dropped to at least level
or very slightly nose down.

4. After 180 degrees of roll nose was definitely below the horizon.
Not in a dive but shallow enough that continuing roll rate should have
allowed completion of roll before bird hitting ground.

5. After 270 degrees of roll bird made almost a square corner port
turn and shortly after hit the ground almost flat 90 degrees off line
of flight.

6. It did not look to me like he dished out but I don't know why the
bird made the rapid 90 degree turn off line of flight. My experience
with dish out of roll, in T-6, bird ended up at max 30 degrees off
line of flight.

7. Assuming video strip was real time, the roll was a pretty rapid
slow roll. My slow rolls were about half the roll rate of this bird.

8.Roll was against torque, which would have slowed roll down without
extra aileron.

9.Either you or Dudley talked about G forces slowing bird down. I
didn't see any large angle of attack which would be required to slow
bird down.

10. Looking at bird in video, I didn't see any reduction in airspeed
until about the time it made the 90 degree turn before impact.

Lots of comments but can't give a hard analysis of what happened from
start to finish.

Big John
  #10  
Old November 18th 07, 09:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Kyle Boatright
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 578
Default T-6 accident


"Big John" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:51:53 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

WJRFlyBoy wrote in
t:

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

This is the one I mean to post Dudley. Was having some trouble with
Youtube due to a plug-in I think..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7eYhlm9FJ8

Can you assess the problem?


What, with my browser or the accident?

The T-6 passed 90 deg (and even earlier) with his nose below the horizon.
He could have rolled back and saved it at that point, but he continued
around in the now awkward position of having to prevent further altitude
loss with excessive neg G which slowed him considerably and further skewed
the airplane's. The exit half was a classic dish. Everybody does 'em
sometimes.... Trick is to recognise a roll that's going to produce one
early enough to abandon it. This guy didn't.

The You tube extension add-on, I have no idea, but it's made a mess out of
my youtube fun!



Bertie



Bertie

I made some comments on another post on this accident which was before
the video of the accident was posted.

I have looked at the strip probably 50 times and can't come up with
what I believe is a accurate analysis of what all happened and why.

1. Bird was in a shallow dive and picking up airspeed, above cruise,
when strip starts. This is a good entry technique.

2. Bird bottomed out and nose was raised above the horizon before roll
started. Again good technique.

3. After first 90 degrees of roll nose had dropped to at least level
or very slightly nose down.

4. After 180 degrees of roll nose was definitely below the horizon.
Not in a dive but shallow enough that continuing roll rate should have
allowed completion of roll before bird hitting ground.

5. After 270 degrees of roll bird made almost a square corner port
turn and shortly after hit the ground almost flat 90 degrees off line
of flight.


Is there any evidence that he fed in pro-roll rudder in addition to some
elevator? That would explain both the nose dropping during the roll and the
rather abrupt course change.


6. It did not look to me like he dished out but I don't know why the
bird made the rapid 90 degree turn off line of flight. My experience
with dish out of roll, in T-6, bird ended up at max 30 degrees off
line of flight.

7. Assuming video strip was real time, the roll was a pretty rapid
slow roll. My slow rolls were about half the roll rate of this bird.

8.Roll was against torque, which would have slowed roll down without
extra aileron.

9.Either you or Dudley talked about G forces slowing bird down. I
didn't see any large angle of attack which would be required to slow
bird down.

10. Looking at bird in video, I didn't see any reduction in airspeed
until about the time it made the 90 degree turn before impact.

Lots of comments but can't give a hard analysis of what happened from
start to finish.

Big John



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Sad Accident RL Anderson Piloting 29 October 20th 07 08:14 PM
F6F accident Larry Cauble Naval Aviation 4 October 14th 05 06:19 PM
C-130 accident Jay Honeck Piloting 28 January 11th 05 07:52 PM
MU2 accident Big John Piloting 16 April 13th 04 03:58 AM
KC-135 accident Big John Piloting 3 November 19th 03 05:36 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2017 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.