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Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 5th 18, 09:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 418
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

I like Top Hat a lot. But as with an attractive woman who seems to fulfill all your wishes, things aren't quite perfect. And like most men, I just want to make one tiny change. It's driving me crazy.

I need two screens:

Circling screen: automatically displayed when I started to circle. Zoomed into a one-thermal view (e.g., 0.6 miles). Displays certain infoboxes (right now, nearly the same ones as the Cruise screen but can be customized).

Cruise screen: automatically displayed when I roll out and fly straight. Zoomed out to whatever level I had set before I circled, from typically from 5 to 30 miles, so I can see waypoints, landing fields, terrain, etc. Displays certain infoboxes (nearly the same ones as the Circling screen but can be customized).

AND...in addition to the automatic switching, whenever I'm circling (looking at the thermal view) and want to take a quick peek at the cruise screen, I can press the "Switch Screens" button on the screen (that I've enabled), and instantly zoom out to see what landing fields I can reach from my miserably low altitude. Then I can instantly switch back to the circling view with another press of the Screen button.

What I can do now:
1. manually switch between the two screens whenever I circle or cruise, with the appropriate zoom levels applying; this works fine but since the autosensing feature knows when I'm circling or flying straight, it would be easier to let the software switch screens;
OR
2. automatically zooms in to 0.6 miles whenever I stop to circle. This works great but requires me to press the "zoom out" button multiple times to see the "cruise" view when I'm circling, then another set of multiple presses to zoom back in to the thermal view;
OR
3. let the software autoswitch between climb and cruise screens but retains the same zoom level for both (I'm not even sure I have this because until recently I had the same infoboxes for circling as for cruising so I may have been looking at the same screen the entire time with different zoom levels; i.e., same as alternative 2, above).

I've tried multiple combinations of autozoom, distinct zoom, single screen/multiple screens, same set of infoboxes vs. multiple sets of infoboxes, setting one or both of the multiple screens as "auto", and probably some I can't recall. Some I've tried in flight, but many others I've tried using the "replay" function. Autozooming works fine there but not some of the other options.

Is anyone doing this now? All the parts are there. I just can't get them set up the way I want.

I believe Top Hat differs from XCSoar in the way users can switch screens (especially with gestures), so my difficulty may be there.

Chip Bearden
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  #2  
Old July 5th 18, 10:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike C
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Posts: 206
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 2:25:27 PM UTC-6, wrote:
I like Top Hat a lot. But as with an attractive woman who seems to fulfill all your wishes, things aren't quite perfect. And like most men, I just want to make one tiny change. It's driving me crazy.

I need two screens:

Circling screen: automatically displayed when I started to circle. Zoomed into a one-thermal view (e.g., 0.6 miles). Displays certain infoboxes (right now, nearly the same ones as the Cruise screen but can be customized).

Cruise screen: automatically displayed when I roll out and fly straight. Zoomed out to whatever level I had set before I circled, from typically from 5 to 30 miles, so I can see waypoints, landing fields, terrain, etc. Displays certain infoboxes (nearly the same ones as the Circling screen but can be customized).

AND...in addition to the automatic switching, whenever I'm circling (looking at the thermal view) and want to take a quick peek at the cruise screen, I can press the "Switch Screens" button on the screen (that I've enabled), and instantly zoom out to see what landing fields I can reach from my miserably low altitude. Then I can instantly switch back to the circling view with another press of the Screen button.

What I can do now:
1. manually switch between the two screens whenever I circle or cruise, with the appropriate zoom levels applying; this works fine but since the autosensing feature knows when I'm circling or flying straight, it would be easier to let the software switch screens;
OR
2. automatically zooms in to 0.6 miles whenever I stop to circle. This works great but requires me to press the "zoom out" button multiple times to see the "cruise" view when I'm circling, then another set of multiple presses to zoom back in to the thermal view;
OR
3. let the software autoswitch between climb and cruise screens but retains the same zoom level for both (I'm not even sure I have this because until recently I had the same infoboxes for circling as for cruising so I may have been looking at the same screen the entire time with different zoom levels; i.e., same as alternative 2, above).

I've tried multiple combinations of autozoom, distinct zoom, single screen/multiple screens, same set of infoboxes vs. multiple sets of infoboxes, setting one or both of the multiple screens as "auto", and probably some I can't recall. Some I've tried in flight, but many others I've tried using the "replay" function. Autozooming works fine there but not some of the other options.

Is anyone doing this now? All the parts are there. I just can't get them set up the way I want.

I believe Top Hat differs from XCSoar in the way users can switch screens (especially with gestures), so my difficulty may be there.

Chip Bearden


Chip

Do you actually have a circling page and a cruise page set up or are you using the auto page unknowingly for both?

Mike
  #3  
Old July 5th 18, 10:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 418
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

Do you actually have a circling page and a cruise page set up or are you using the auto page unknowingly for both?

I've done it both ways [I think]. Originally defined two sets of infoboxes (climb and cruise) but I'd only defined (or activated?) one page. And I used automatic thermaling zoom (or whatever it's called; I don't have my Kobo here) to change the view when climbing. That worked great except when I wanted to quickly zoom out while circling.

When I realized that, I defined two pages, each of which has one set of infoboxes assigned/referenced. These don't seem to autoswitch in flight. When I assign one of those pages as "Auto" (per the help instructions), it either doesn't autoswitch when climbing or it does but retains the same zoom level as for cruising. And when I zoom in manually, it doesn't auto zoom out when I cruise again; it stays zoomed in until I change it manually. When I enable the autozoom function in this mode and press the Screens button to switch to cruise, it retains the zoomed in view and I have to manually zoom out anyway. At least I think that's what's happening. It's a chore to go into settings every few minutes in flight and still fly the glider.

I haven't tested every combination in flight so I'm assuming I just haven't stumbled across the right configuration settings. I thought Distinct Zoom would do it, and it does for manually switching screens. But not when hoping they will autoswitch. I'm 90% of the way the I just need a way to force the application to autoswitch my screens as they are set up the same way I now manually switch them with the Screens button. Or so it seems....

Chip Bearden

  #4  
Old July 6th 18, 12:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Posts: 165
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 1:25:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I like Top Hat a lot. But as with an attractive woman who seems to fulfill all your wishes, things aren't quite perfect. And like most men, I just want to make one tiny change. It's driving me crazy.

I need two screens:

Circling screen: automatically displayed when I started to circle. Zoomed into a one-thermal view (e.g., 0.6 miles). Displays certain infoboxes (right now, nearly the same ones as the Cruise screen but can be customized).

Cruise screen: automatically displayed when I roll out and fly straight. Zoomed out to whatever level I had set before I circled, from typically from 5 to 30 miles, so I can see waypoints, landing fields, terrain, etc. Displays certain infoboxes (nearly the same ones as the Circling screen but can be customized).

AND...in addition to the automatic switching, whenever I'm circling (looking at the thermal view) and want to take a quick peek at the cruise screen, I can press the "Switch Screens" button on the screen (that I've enabled), and instantly zoom out to see what landing fields I can reach from my miserably low altitude. Then I can instantly switch back to the circling view with another press of the Screen button.

What I can do now:
1. manually switch between the two screens whenever I circle or cruise, with the appropriate zoom levels applying; this works fine but since the autosensing feature knows when I'm circling or flying straight, it would be easier to let the software switch screens;
OR
2. automatically zooms in to 0.6 miles whenever I stop to circle. This works great but requires me to press the "zoom out" button multiple times to see the "cruise" view when I'm circling, then another set of multiple presses to zoom back in to the thermal view;
OR
3. let the software autoswitch between climb and cruise screens but retains the same zoom level for both (I'm not even sure I have this because until recently I had the same infoboxes for circling as for cruising so I may have been looking at the same screen the entire time with different zoom levels; i.e., same as alternative 2, above).

I've tried multiple combinations of autozoom, distinct zoom, single screen/multiple screens, same set of infoboxes vs. multiple sets of infoboxes, setting one or both of the multiple screens as "auto", and probably some I can't recall. Some I've tried in flight, but many others I've tried using the "replay" function. Autozooming works fine there but not some of the other options.

Is anyone doing this now? All the parts are there. I just can't get them set up the way I want.

I believe Top Hat differs from XCSoar in the way users can switch screens (especially with gestures), so my difficulty may be there.

Chip Bearden


Chip
I am using a Kobo Glo with Top Hat.
I am also using three different pages and different infoboxes (menulookinfoboxes)selected for each page for; circling,cruise and final glide functions.
When in "cruise" as I start turning into a thermal it automatically switches to the "circling mode" ( also switches to thermal assist in addition to the new info boxes programed now show up) and when I leave the thermal after about 20 seconds or so it switches back to "cruise mode". The same with final glide.
I hope I am answering your question?
  #5  
Old July 6th 18, 05:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 418
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

I am using a Kobo Glo with Top Hat.
I am also using three different pages and different infoboxes (menulookinfoboxes)selected for each page for; circling,cruise and final glide functions.
When in "cruise" as I start turning into a thermal it automatically switches to the "circling mode" ( also switches to thermal assist in addition to the new info boxes programed now show up) and when I leave the thermal after about 20 seconds or so it switches back to "cruise mode". The same with final glide.
I hope I am answering your question?


What happens to the zoom level when the pages switch? If you were cruising with a zoom of 9.8 miles and then start to circle--and the zoom level in your last thermal was 0.6 miles--does the page zoom in to 0.6 miles when you start to circle? When you start cruising again, does the zoom level return to 9.8 miles? [I believe you would have to enable "Distinct Zoom" for this to work]. Since you have multiple pages set up, can you manually switch between those pages (the only way I know of is to enable the Screen switching button on the page and then press that button)? If/when you manually switch, do the circling and cruising pages retain their zoom levels?

If so, THAT'S WHAT I WANT!!

I played around with my Kobo Glo/Top Hat tonight and it appears that if I set up two sets of infoboxes (circle and cruise) and one page set on "Auto", the pages should switch from circling to cruising. I say "should" because they don't in replay or sim mode but the way I read the Help comments, they should. However, with one page set to "Auto", the Screen switching button disappears. So if I want to zoom out while I'm circling, I have to press the zoom out button multiple times, then reverse the process when I want to go back to circling mode. Ugh.

As a first try this weekend, I've configured two pages: one as "Auto" and the other as "Cruise". Each seems to retain the zoom level I set for it and I can page from Circling to Auto and back again by pressing the Screen switching button. What I suspect is that it will autoswitch just fine but always stay at one zoom level. If I enable thermaling zoom, that will override the zoomed out view on the Cruise page and I'm back where I started.

Chip Bearden
  #6  
Old July 6th 18, 07:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Wyll Surf Air
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Posts: 18
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

when I have used both XCSoar and Top hat they have both done exactly what you are asking for. My setting are
Look pages Infoboxes is set to auto
and

look infoboxes use final glide mode off

I also have different infoboxes for cruise mode and circling mode

make sure you are using the Advanced mode menue

when I am flying straight it is in cruise mode and zoomed out. then I start thermaling and it goes to circling mode and zooms into whatever zoom I used in the last thermal. Then when I leave the thermal it zooms out to whatever zoom I was at before the thermal. Just remember it will the zoom both in and out of circling mode are sticky so they will go back to what you were using the last time it was in that mode. Also you can test this out by replying an igc file at 1 or 2 times speed. If you replay at to fast a speed it won't trip the switch between cruise and climb.
Also in the GLide Computer Experimental section, you can adjust the averaging time as well as turn radios that trips both going into and out of circling mode.
  #7  
Old July 6th 18, 08:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Posts: 278
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

What Wyll and 6pk describe is what the OP wants EXCEPT he also wants to be able to make the switch manually so that when circling he can check the overview situation, then go back into circling mode.

My solution is to run 2 devices, one map zoomed in, the other showing an overview!
  #8  
Old July 6th 18, 02:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 418
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

On Friday, July 6, 2018 at 3:41:09 AM UTC-4, waremark wrote:
What Wyll and 6pk describe is what the OP wants EXCEPT he also wants to be able to make the switch manually so that when circling he can check the overview situation, then go back into circling mode.

My solution is to run 2 devices, one map zoomed in, the other showing an overview!


That's what I had for many years: GNII running on a Compaq 1500 with whatever overhead view I was using to navigate (e.g., 5-20 miles) plus a Garmin handheld on the side of the cockpit permanently zoomed in so I could watch my track in a thermal from overhead--and explore under a cloud or nearby knowing I could follow the breadcrumbs back to the center. Despite the fact that the Garmin didn't have any indication of lift strength, more than once I made it home in the evening because I was able to sample other wisps or areas looking for better lift and then return to the weak but steady thermal I'd found earlier with ease, all without having to change or touch anything..

Such is progress. I'm almost ready to bolt the Garmin back into the cockpit.. I'm frustrated that I can't get those two views without multiple presses of a touchscreen button (overriding the zoom when I let the Top Hat pages switch automatically) OR manually switching from cruise to climb (and back again) every time I stop to thermal. The sensors and algorithms are all there to sense when I'm circling and change the zoom level and infoboxes displayed. But I fear the logic to do what I want is not.

Chip Bearden
  #9  
Old July 6th 18, 02:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nick Kennedy
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Posts: 118
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

Chip
If you can't get your tophat to work, I recommend just springing for a few bucks and getting a Oudie with SYM already loaded and running.
There not cheap but it works and it works good, never locks up and gets funky in flight.
Connected to a PowerFlarm it is a powerful idiot proof device with great support.
Fly Safe and good luck
  #10  
Old July 6th 18, 03:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Posts: 165
Default Top Hat Question (XCSoar?)

On Thursday, July 5, 2018 at 11:37:33 PM UTC-7, Wyll Surf Air wrote:
when I have used both XCSoar and Top hat they have both done exactly what you are asking for. My setting are
Look pages Infoboxes is set to auto
and

look infoboxes use final glide mode off

I also have different infoboxes for cruise mode and circling mode

make sure you are using the Advanced mode menue

when I am flying straight it is in cruise mode and zoomed out. then I start thermaling and it goes to circling mode and zooms into whatever zoom I used in the last thermal. Then when I leave the thermal it zooms out to whatever zoom I was at before the thermal. Just remember it will the zoom both in and out of circling mode are sticky so they will go back to what you were using the last time it was in that mode. Also you can test this out by replying an igc file at 1 or 2 times speed. If you replay at to fast a speed it won't trip the switch between cruise and climb.
Also in the GLide Computer Experimental section, you can adjust the averaging time as well as turn radios that trips both going into and out of circling mode.


Well described; that is exactly my experience ( accept I do have final glide set up but with the same nav boxes as cruise).
 




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