Multiengine Rating

"RomeoMike" wrote

That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got my multi in one of
those
and later had a real engine out experience (right one) on a cross country
with my family.
Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.

What was the approximate single engine service ceiling? (if that is the
right way to say it for multis)
--
Jim in NC

That's the correct phraseology. Loose an engine and you'll descend to the
single engine service ceiling (density altitude). The Aztec is 6000 ft.
Plenty of MEA's out west that are higher than that.
Jim

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"RomeoMike" wrote

That was the PA 23-180, "Geronimo" conversion. I got my multi in one of
those
and later had a real engine out experience (right one) on a cross
country
with my family.
Fortunately, we were not in the mountains.

What was the approximate single engine service ceiling? (if that is the
right way to say it for multis)
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:


What was the approximate single engine service ceiling? (if that is the
right way to say it for multis)

I don't remember exactly, but something like 5000 ft. for the Geronimo
comes to mind. I have a copy of a copy of the POH, so the altitude
performance chart is unreadable. I aways figured I could fly on one
engine in low elevation areas, but in the mountainous west, particularly
on a non-standard day, forget it.

Takeoffs and landings in the Aztec are simply fun. If you don't care
whether or not you can see out the windscreen, just rotate at 80mph, hold
100mph, and it will climb like you say, a scalded cat. Landings can be just
as steep, it will land on any spot you can see over the nose. Hold 85mph
all the way down to 30ft above the deck then ad a short burst of power to
arrest your decent as you level off, you can have it stopped in 500 ft easy.

Jim

wrote:
Hi, i'm interested in the multiengine rating (land), VFR-add-on to my
PP-ASEL.
Any comments about the best training aircraft for these purpose ?
(PA34 Seneca, Beech Duchess, PA44 Seminole, Diamond DA42, ..)

There are big differences concerning the rating requirements.
Some flight schools offer a multi training of 6 hours, other 25 hours
for the rating.


Depending on what you want to do with the rating, a VFR-only twin pilot
would be rather limited. Getting the instrument rating before the multi
would make you more marketable, if that's your intent (and save you an
extra checkride).

I did my multi training in a Seneca 1, and haven't flown any of the
others you listed but they'll all get the job done. The Seneca is
probably the roomiest which is nice if you're a big guy, whereas the
Seminole is essentially a twin engine Arrow (kinda snug) and the
Duchess felt kinda cozy when I sat in one. The only other difference I
know of is the Seminole has counter-rotating engines which eliminates
its critical engine and lowers Vmc a few knots. I don't know of any
flight schools with DA42 TwinStars as they're so new to the fleet, but
I'd jump at the chance to go fly one.

As far as the differences in program time requirements, I don't think
there is a minimum # of hours to get the endorsement as it's up to your
instructor when you'd take the checkride. However, having the multi
rating is no guarantee you'll be able to rent a twin, as insurance
requirements are the determining factor as to whether the flight school
will hand you the keys. Besides a total time requirement, some schools
require an instrument rating and/or a commercial license in addition to
X hours multi time; sometimes there's a "time in type" requirement too.

Depending on what you want to do with the rating, a VFR-only twin pilot
would be rather limited. Getting the instrument rating before the multi
would make you more marketable, if that's your intent (and save you an
extra checkride).


Many Rental Agencies will not rent a Twin to a VFR Pilot
The insurance company makes the rules.

I rent a Seneca II that requires Instrument Rating, 500hrs total time and 75
hours ME time.
You can get around the 75 hr requirement if you complete the ME Rating with
their program and in their airplane, but you are limited to 1 pax until
50hrs ME time.

If you can rent a Twin without the Instrument rating. Then work on your
commercial written and maneuvers in a Piper Arrow or similar aircraft, at
the same time intersperse some Twin Training.

Take the Commercial SEL check ride one month, and the Commercial MEL within
a few days.
Without an Instrument Rating, your Commercial credentials will be limited.

BT

BT wrote:
If you can rent a Twin without the Instrument rating. Then work on your
commercial written and maneuvers in a Piper Arrow or similar aircraft, at
the same time intersperse some Twin Training.

Take the Commercial SEL check ride one month, and the Commercial MEL within
a few days.
Without an Instrument Rating, your Commercial credentials will be limited.


Nobody was interested in renting a twin at all in my area, so I put the multi
rating on the back burner until I had a need. I'd gotten my private,
instrument, and then commercial license and just started building hours by hook
or by crook. I eventually was in the right place at the right time and talked
my way into single engine part 135. I started doing single pilot charters for
them and saw the handwriting on the wall.... it was time to see about a multi
rating (my company used a C-402B for multi charter; a Cherokee Six or C-210 for
single engine charter).

I went down to Atlanta to one of the flight schools that advertised at the time
in Trade-A-Plane. I'm too lazy to go downstairs and see how many hours it took
but it wasn't all that much (maybe 6 or so). We did most of the training in a
multi sim, then went for a couple of flights in a Seminole. After that it was
just a check ride with a designated examiner who was on staff at the flight
school.

I continued doing my single engine charter for the company until one day I was
scheduled to fly as copilot on a C-402 trip and the pilot didn't show up (went
on a bender instead). Didn't call, nothing. Just didn't show up... but I did.
I ended up flying the folks in a Cherokee Six. The following week, I got
checked out as PIC in the C-402. Nice airplane. I enjoyed flying it a lot.

The point of all this is that getting a multi rating as the first add-on to a
private license is probably going to be a waste of time and money. You'll get
infinitely more utility out of an instrument rating. Then when things fall into
place, you can always add the multi rating later. It just isn't that big a
deal.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Mortimer Schnerd, RN writes:

We did most of the training in a multi sim, then went for a couple
of flights in a Seminole.

Why waste time in a sim? It has nothing to do with real flying. I
know this because experts here have told me so.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Oh man, this is such a nice pitch, right down the middle, so very easy
to hit out of the park.

Or is it bait?

Looks like bait.

Smells like bait.

Trolls like bait.



On Jan 15, 3:39 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Mortimer Schnerd, RN writes:
We did most of the training in a multi sim, then went for a couple
of flights in a Seminole.Why waste time in a sim? It has nothing to do with real flying. I
know this because experts here have told me so.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Why waste time in a sim? It has nothing to do with real flying. I
know this because experts here have told me so.


Then you haven't been paying attention, my flightless friend : )

(you were right, Tony...)