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Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 14th 17, 09:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WaltWX[_2_]
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Posts: 307
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

Can anyone recommend the Beringer disc brake kit for Ventus, Discus or Schemmp-Hirth gliders? I'm seriously considering retrofitting my D2A after a nearly disastrous run off the runway up at Ely ... partially due to fading brake (plenty of pilot error problems too...)

I'm especially interested in it's effectiveness to "... put the glider up on it's nose..." in cases of an emergency stop. Also, any issues or procedures for infield tire replacements.

Walt Rogers WX
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  #2  
Old October 14th 17, 09:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Walsh
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Posts: 83
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

At 20:29 14 October 2017, WaltWX wrote:
Can anyone recommend the Beringer disc brake kit for

Ventus, Discus or
Sche=
mmp-Hirth gliders? I'm seriously considering retrofitting

my D2A after a
ne=
arly disastrous run off the runway up at Ely ... partially due

to fading
br=
ake (plenty of pilot error problems too...)

I'm especially interested in it's effectiveness to "... put the

glider up
o=
n it's nose..." in cases of an emergency stop. Also, any

issues or
procedur=
es for infield tire replacements.

Walt Rogers WX

Not quite on topic but I have a Beringer disk brake (standard
fit on the Antares 20E). The engineering is excellent, a joy to
behold and to work on, no problem with "on field"
maintenance, no special tools required. Factory is good to
deal with too. I'd assume their kit for SH gliders will be to
the same high standard. The only thing to remember is that
it apparently takes about 14 landings, using the brake
gently, to "bed-in" new disk/pads! This might be a problem if
you have to land-out before you've done 14 on-airfield
landings? Basically I'd recommend them.
Dave Walsh

  #3  
Old October 14th 17, 10:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,546
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 4:29:58 PM UTC-4, WaltWX wrote:
Can anyone recommend the Beringer disc brake kit...


Hi Walt - I also have the Beringer brake on Antares.
Biggest problem is it is too effective; despite limiter I once
managed to flat-spot the tire landing with the spoilers full aft.

Check the actuation in the kit for SH: no stretchy Bowden cables!!
IIRC its an on-tick master which should be fine.

Also note changing the (tubeless) tire is difficult in the field;
best to use the (inexpensive) tool from Beringer and watch the
fiddly O-rings.

Super high quality, great company to work with.

Hope that helps!
See ya, Dave
  #4  
Old October 14th 17, 11:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 771
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

I installed the Beringer in my Pegasus and could not be happier with it. Excellent engineering and workmanship. Installation was easy. EASA approval for the logbook means no hassles with the FAA or an A&P or IA.

It has a pressure limiter (Think of it as antilock braking) so it won't actually stand the glider on its nose at any speed, but watch out as you get slow! I have rotated over until the nose hit the ground as the speed went to zero. And then the tail slams down and your buddies laugh at you.

Stopping distance is MUCH improved over the OEM drum brake or a Tost drum. Highly recommended.

No input on tire replacement.
  #5  
Old October 14th 17, 11:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

I have a Beringer wheel on a JS1 and it is a nice piece of kit and has worked and braked fine however, having had my eyes opened by helping a colleague to change the tyre on a colleague's Antares, I wouldn't get one again. If the tyre gets damaged and needs replaced you need to source the expensive 10 ply tubeless aviation tyre and need to have the tyre changing kit (plywood frames + metal spacer to compress the tyre) + lube + new O ring kit. I recently bought all that to take on an expedition to South Africa at total cost in UK over £350 and it took a few weeks to source separately. Without it if I burst a tyre I reckoned I would be stuck on the ground for a long time.

It's fine if you are aware of those aspects and have spares available or can wait to get them if a problem arises.

I would opt for a Tost Penta while which is lighter than standard Tost wheel system (but heavier than a Beringer) and has a hydraulic disc brake but takes normal tubed tyres.

  #6  
Old October 15th 17, 04:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,546
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 6:31:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I have a Beringer wheel on a JS1 and it is a nice piece of kit and has
worked and braked fine however, having had my eyes opened by helping a
colleague to change the tyre on a colleague's Antares, I wouldn't get one
again. If the tyre gets damaged and needs replaced you need to source the
expensive 10 ply tubeless aviation tyre and need to have the tyre changing
kit (plywood frames + metal spacer to compress the tyre) + lube + new O
ring kit. I recently bought all that to take on an expedition to South
Africa at total cost in UK over £350 and it took a few weeks to source
separately. Without it if I burst a tyre I reckoned I would be stuck
on the ground for a long time.


I recommend a spare wheel with mounted tire; makes a simple swap
quick and easy (I travel with such). These tubeless tires are much less
likely to have a problem then tubed types, but again a field repair is
troublesome. Anyway, I highly recommend the Beringer product.

Hope that helps!
Walt, give me a ring if any further questions,
Best Regards, Dave
  #7  
Old October 15th 17, 04:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Steven Shelton
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Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Saturday, October 14, 2017 at 4:29:58 PM UTC-4, WaltWX wrote:
Can anyone recommend the Beringer disc brake kit for Ventus, Discus or Schemmp-Hirth gliders? I'm seriously considering retrofitting my D2A after a nearly disastrous run off the runway up at Ely ... partially due to fading brake (plenty of pilot error problems too...)

I'm especially interested in it's effectiveness to "... put the glider up on it's nose..." in cases of an emergency stop. Also, any issues or procedures for infield tire replacements.

Walt Rogers WXHello,



Monty of M&H was good enough to install a Beringer disc brake kit P/N STC-007 on my D2A a few years ago. Unfortunately I have not been able to fly the glider much since installation. What I can say is that the stopping power of the Beringer disk break to be about what you would expect compared to the four inch drum break, but not so much that I worry about putting the glider on it's nose. This may be because I have yet to properly condition the disk/pads. Proper conditioning requires around 20 landings according to their instructions. A lightweight pressure limiter can be purchased and installed in the hydraulic line should you need to limit the amount of force exerted by the brake calipers.

I believe the installation of the kit was straightforward with the exception that the fender and fender attachment point on the dampers had to be removed. In case you are unaware Berringer states " The kit is made only for Discus 2A with dampers on the landing gear. If you do not have dampers it is not possible to install the kit." The kit is delivered with an EASA Form 1. When asked, Beringer supplied us with a copy of EASA Supplemental Type Certificate 10041707 for my aircraft maintenance records.

I have not yet purchased a spare tire, required replacement o-ring or the Baringer tire changing tool but plan to do so when I begin flying regularly again. I do not want to be without them should I ever need them. I can't speak to the degree of difficulty in changing a tire on a Beringer rim because I have not yet done so but to me the process does not seem overly complicated if using the tire changing tool and appropriate torque wrench. The tire is from Aeroclassic and can be purchased from several vendors. Tire inflation is a healthy 5 bar/72 psi. On the whole I enjoy not having to deal with tire tubes and believe that a 10 PLY tire offers good protection against flats.

Be advised that according to their flight manual supplement installation of the kit reduces the maximum landing weight from 535 kg to 400 kg.

I was trained to land with minimal controllable energy and I strive to achieve that goal on every landing. Still, it is nice to know that now, when I squeeze the brake lever the glider will stop.

Any further questions please just ask and I'll be happy to try and answer them.





  #8  
Old October 15th 17, 10:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 374
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

A full spare Beringer wheel with mounted tyre as an essential? Seriously? At their prices? In the real world when there is an alternative option to get a disk brake it makes no sense to me. The Beringer wheel does look really cool 'thougn.
  #9  
Old October 15th 17, 12:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,546
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience and effectiveness?

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 5:46:43 AM UTC-4, wrote:
A full spare Beringer wheel with mounted tyre as an essential? Seriously?


If one has a flat at a contest grid, changing the tire would take too long.
Undoing the axle, caliper, and disc and swapping the mounted tire/rim is
relatively painless. Similarly, have a spare mounted tailwheel...

The tubeless tire is quite resilient, but Texas thorns are impressive too.

If you're not too concerned about missing a day, no spare required ;-)

See ya, Dave
  #10  
Old October 15th 17, 03:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,331
Default Beringer Disc Brake Kit for Schemm-Hirth gliders - experience andeffectiveness?

Is there a Cleveland wheel, disk, and caliper that would work? They're
used all over general aviation.* I don't know for sure about the wheels
and disks, but my Stemme uses Cleveland calipers.* I'll be replacing the
pads next week for under $50 for four pads.

On 10/14/2017 4:31 PM, wrote:
I have a Beringer wheel on a JS1 and it is a nice piece of kit and has worked and braked fine however, having had my eyes opened by helping a colleague to change the tyre on a colleague's Antares, I wouldn't get one again. If the tyre gets damaged and needs replaced you need to source the expensive 10 ply tubeless aviation tyre and need to have the tyre changing kit (plywood frames + metal spacer to compress the tyre) + lube + new O ring kit. I recently bought all that to take on an expedition to South Africa at total cost in UK over £350 and it took a few weeks to source separately. Without it if I burst a tyre I reckoned I would be stuck on the ground for a long time.

It's fine if you are aware of those aspects and have spares available or can wait to get them if a problem arises.

I would opt for a Tost Penta while which is lighter than standard Tost wheel system (but heavier than a Beringer) and has a hydraulic disc brake but takes normal tubed tyres.


--
Dan, 5J
 




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