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#11
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
On Oct 6, 12:30*pm, Ross wrote:
Ęslop wrote: "Dallas" wrote in message .. . Yep... *and how they hang on to their "phony baloney" jobs for life. Government sector jobs are now more than 50% of total employment in this country and considering benefits, they now make double the average private sector salary. When I was a kid, government jobs were for underpaid losers, performed in offices constructed in the 1930's and executed behind those big greenish grey desks that were in surplus after WWII. Now, they office out of brand new gleaming glass towers with marble lobbies and fountained courtyards, and retire in a style that 90% of their salary can provide. If I had only known that when I was 20 years old I would've signed up. Do you just make this crap up? I am a government (State) employee, and have worked very hard at it for 14 years. Including benefits, I still don't make comparable salary to the same job in the private sector. It was close some time ago, but due to numerous factors over the last 8 or 9 years, our salaries have fallen well behind. For an idea of the total government jobs, you can read this: http://www.rockinst.org/pdf/governme...20-State_Local... I work on average 50 - 60 hours a week, and am salaried so get no overtime. Believe me, I earn every dollar I make. I believe the post would be more appropriate to the elected officials in Washington. I thought once for running for one term in Congress. My platform is "I just want a piece of your pie. I will give you 100% for one term, take my benefits, and go back home." -- Regards, Ross C-172F 180HP Sold KSWI I think the gist of the opinion expressing a negative viewpoint on government workers was meant to be directed in the overall sense, and in that context, I believe the evidence is absolutely overwhelming in favor of general incompetence as pertains to the government worker. Individual workers notwithstanding of course, where many individuals do their best to work competently within a structure wrought with corruption, favoritism, and God only knows what else. Everyone will have personal examples both pro and con concerning the government employment experience. In my own family we have not one but two sons who spent professional careers in government work. BOTH speak of gross incompetence at all levels of their respective occupations. One son who worked at the highest level of the defense industry was relieved beyond words to reach retirement age. I'm sure there will be other individuals with more positive opinions of government competence than mine. This anecdotal data is as I say strictly personal, and the real answer to government competence must be sought in it's systemic context. My opinion on that level would be that what would be found is overwhelming inferiority when directly compared to the private sector. Dudley Henriques |
#12
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
George Orwell once wrote a short piece called "Politics and the English
Language." It is worth a read, if only for a hearty laugh and a firm acknowlegement that yes, others HAVE noticed! Of the many literary quotes he reproduces in the text, here is one of my favorites : "I am not indeed sure whether it is not true to say that the Milton who once seemed not unlike a seventeenth-century Shelly had not become out of an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien to the founder of that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate." You almost need a calculator to get through this one sentance! |
#13
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
"VOR-DME" wrote in message ... George Orwell once wrote a short piece called "Politics and the English Language." It is worth a read, if only for a hearty laugh and a firm acknowlegement that yes, others HAVE noticed! Of the many literary quotes he reproduces in the text, here is one of my favorites : "I am not indeed sure whether it is not true to say that the Milton who once seemed not unlike a seventeenth-century Shelly had not become out of an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien to the founder of that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate." You almost need a calculator to get through this one sentance! Almost? Well, I certainly require a scratch pad! Peter :-))))) |
#14
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
On Oct 6, 5:56*pm, VOR-DME wrote:
George Orwell once wrote a short piece called "Politics and the English Language." It is worth a read, if only for a hearty laugh and a firm acknowlegement that yes, others HAVE noticed! Of the many literary quotes he reproduces in the text, here is one of my favorites : "I am not indeed sure whether it is not true to say that the Milton who once seemed not unlike a seventeenth-century Shelly had not become out of an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien to the founder of that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate." You almost need a calculator to get through this one sentance! I think I saw this on the old ATR written exam :-) Dudley Henriques |
#15
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
"Dallas" wrote in message ... On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:20:07 -0700, Ęslop wrote: Do you just make this crap up? Nope. "Federal wages and benefits have been rising quickly, and by 2004 the average compensation of federal workers was almost twice the average in the private sector." http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0605-35.pdf What about the 50% of all workers? Where did this number come from? It's actually about 17% TOTAL, Fed, State Local combined. As an average of total salaries, yes the number is double. But this is completely and totally meaningless. Government agencies don't hire (for the most part) unskilled labor, and far less semi-skilled than make up the "average" workforce. In my dept, over 50% of employees have a 4 year degree or higher.This is well over double the average of about 25 percent of all workers over 25 in the US. Stating the average government wage is double or triple or whatever the national average is as meaningless as saying the average at Boeing, or FedEx, or any other large corporation is higher than average of all workers. They don't hire burger-flippers and day-laborers. Even in the doc you quoted, the authors state that on a position to position comparison, the Federal jobs are either slightly higher or slightly lower than public sector, depending on the study. Personally, I could care less what your opinion of gubmint workers is. But at least get some actual facts instead of just pulling numbers out of your ass and quoting meaningless stats that you apparently have been unable to comprehend. |
#16
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ... This anecdotal data is as I say strictly personal, and the real answer to government competence must be sought in it's systemic context. My opinion on that level would be that what would be found is overwhelming inferiority when directly compared to the private sector. And mine is the opposite, based on *first-hand* experience over quite a few years. Is there incompetence in the government sector? Without a doubt. I see it all the time. Is it pervasive? Not at all. I have actually found more incompetence in the consultants we engage from the private sector than in our own workforce. But this is only my anecdotal evidence. |
#17
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
On Oct 6, 10:45*pm, "Ęslop" wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message ... This anecdotal data is as I say strictly personal, and the real answer to government competence must be sought in it's systemic context. My opinion on that level would be that what would be found is overwhelming inferiority when directly compared to the private sector. And mine is the opposite, based on *first-hand* experience over quite a few years. Is there incompetence in the government sector? Without a doubt. I see it all the time. Is it pervasive? Not at all. I have actually found more incompetence in the consultants we engage from the private sector than in our own workforce. But this is only my anecdotal evidence. As is always the case in these "discussions" :-)) opinions vary of course. DH |
#18
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
"Ross" wrote in message ... I believe the post would be more appropriate to the elected officials in Washington. And with that, I cannot argue :-) |
#19
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
In article ,
Dallas wrote: Government sector jobs are now more than 50% of total employment in this country and considering benefits, they now make double the average private sector salary. I usually stay out of these discussions but this is just absurd. 50% of total employment and 2x the average private sector salary would imply that 67% of total salaries in the US are paid to government employees, and only 33% of total salaries are paid to private employees. And that is just the minimum. You're claiming "more than 50%", which would mean more than 67% of total salaries are paid to government employees, and less than 33% to the private sector. Did you stop and think about what your claims meant before you made them? These numbers simply don't line up. How are they getting enough money from that 33% pool to pay for the 67% pool? It simply doesn't pass the smell test. If you think about it for a moment, I bet you'll agree. When you claim big numbers, stop for a moment and see if they actually make sense. It will save much silliness and conflict if you do so. If you still believe them, then do us all a favor and actually back up crazy numbers with sources when you post them. -- Mike Ash Radio Free Earth Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon |
#20
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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?
Mike Ash wrote:
In article , Dallas wrote: Government sector jobs are now more than 50% of total employment in this country and considering benefits, they now make double the average private sector salary. I usually stay out of these discussions but this is just absurd. 50% of total employment and 2x the average private sector salary would imply that 67% of total salaries in the US are paid to government employees, and only 33% of total salaries are paid to private employees. Just for the record, historical federal income and expenditures are available he http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy05/hist.html Obviously not included are state and local taxes (typically income, sales, and property taxes being the most well known.) Federal outlays alone accounts for ~19.4% of GDP. Including such state and local taxes, I think it is reasonable to assume that government burden approaches a third of GDP - could be even one half. I leave the actual research on the local government burden to someone who isn't about to go to bed, as I am. ;-) Also, because not all U.S. federal government expenditures are on direct labor to government employees (think all that capital expenditure and use of private services,) it is plausible (even if it may not be true) to claim double salary compensation over private sector without having government salary account for 67% of all salaries, public and private. |
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