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61.56 BFR Whaaaat?



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 6th 09, 09:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dudley Henriques[_2_]
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Posts: 2,546
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?

On Oct 6, 12:30*pm, Ross wrote:
Ęslop wrote:
"Dallas" wrote in message
.. .
Yep... *and how they hang on to their "phony baloney" jobs for life.


Government sector jobs are now more than 50% of total employment in this
country and considering benefits, they now make double the average private
sector salary.


When I was a kid, government jobs were for underpaid losers, performed in
offices constructed in the 1930's and executed behind those big greenish
grey desks that were in surplus after WWII.


Now, they office out of brand new gleaming glass towers with marble
lobbies
and fountained courtyards, and retire in a style that 90% of their salary
can provide.


If I had only known that when I was 20 years old I would've signed up.


Do you just make this crap up? I am a government (State) employee, and have
worked very hard at it for 14 years. Including benefits, I still don't make
comparable salary to the same job in the private sector. It was close some
time ago, but due to numerous factors over the last 8 or 9 years, our
salaries have fallen well behind. For an idea of the total government jobs,
you can read this:


http://www.rockinst.org/pdf/governme...20-State_Local...


I work on average 50 - 60 hours a week, and am salaried so get no overtime.
Believe me, I earn every dollar I make.


I believe the post would be more appropriate to the elected officials in
Washington. I thought once for running for one term in Congress. My
platform is "I just want a piece of your pie. I will give you 100% for
one term, take my benefits, and go back home."

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
Sold
KSWI


I think the gist of the opinion expressing a negative viewpoint on
government workers was meant to be directed in the overall sense, and
in that context, I believe the evidence is absolutely overwhelming in
favor of general incompetence as pertains to the government worker.
Individual workers notwithstanding of course, where many individuals
do their best to work competently within a structure wrought with
corruption, favoritism, and God only knows what else.
Everyone will have personal examples both pro and con concerning the
government employment experience. In my own family we have not one but
two sons who spent professional careers in government work. BOTH speak
of gross incompetence at all levels of their respective occupations.
One son who worked at the highest level of the defense industry was
relieved beyond words to reach retirement age. I'm sure there will be
other individuals with more positive opinions of government competence
than mine.
This anecdotal data is as I say strictly personal, and the real answer
to government competence must be sought in it's systemic context. My
opinion on that level would be that what would be found is
overwhelming inferiority when directly compared to the private sector.

Dudley Henriques

  #12  
Old October 6th 09, 10:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
VOR-DME
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Posts: 54
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?

George Orwell once wrote a short piece called "Politics and the English
Language." It is worth a read, if only for a hearty laugh and a firm
acknowlegement that yes, others HAVE noticed!

Of the many literary quotes he reproduces in the text, here is one of my
favorites :

"I am not indeed sure whether it is not true to say that the Milton who
once seemed not unlike a seventeenth-century Shelly had not become out of
an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien to the founder of
that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate."

You almost need a calculator to get through this one sentance!

  #13  
Old October 7th 09, 12:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Peter Dohm
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Posts: 1,754
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?


"VOR-DME" wrote in message
...
George Orwell once wrote a short piece called "Politics and the English
Language." It is worth a read, if only for a hearty laugh and a firm
acknowlegement that yes, others HAVE noticed!

Of the many literary quotes he reproduces in the text, here is one of my
favorites :

"I am not indeed sure whether it is not true to say that the Milton who
once seemed not unlike a seventeenth-century Shelly had not become out of
an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien to the founder of
that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate."

You almost need a calculator to get through this one sentance!


Almost?

Well, I certainly require a scratch pad!

Peter :-)))))



  #14  
Old October 7th 09, 01:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dudley Henriques[_2_]
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Posts: 2,546
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?

On Oct 6, 5:56*pm, VOR-DME wrote:
George Orwell once wrote a short piece called "Politics and the English
Language." It is worth a read, if only for a hearty laugh and a firm
acknowlegement that yes, others HAVE noticed!

Of the many literary quotes he reproduces in the text, here is one of my
favorites :

"I am not indeed sure whether it is not true to say that the Milton who
once seemed not unlike a seventeenth-century Shelly had not become out of
an experience ever more bitter in each year, more alien to the founder of
that Jesuit sect which nothing could induce him to tolerate."

You almost need a calculator to get through this one sentance!


I think I saw this on the old ATR written exam :-)
Dudley Henriques
  #15  
Old October 7th 09, 03:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ęslop
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Posts: 23
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?


"Dallas" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:20:07 -0700, Ęslop wrote:

Do you just make this crap up?


Nope.

"Federal wages and benefits have been rising quickly, and by 2004 the
average compensation of federal workers was almost twice the average in
the
private sector."

http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0605-35.pdf



What about the 50% of all workers? Where did this number come from? It's
actually about 17% TOTAL, Fed, State Local combined.

As an average of total salaries, yes the number is double. But this is
completely and totally meaningless. Government agencies don't hire (for the
most part) unskilled labor, and far less semi-skilled than make up the
"average" workforce. In my dept, over 50% of employees have a 4 year degree
or higher.This is well over double the average of about 25 percent of all
workers over 25 in the US. Stating the average government wage is double or
triple or whatever the national average is as meaningless as saying the
average at Boeing, or FedEx, or any other large corporation is higher than
average of all workers. They don't hire burger-flippers and day-laborers.
Even in the doc you quoted, the authors state that on a position to position
comparison, the Federal jobs are either slightly higher or slightly lower
than public sector, depending on the study.

Personally, I could care less what your opinion of gubmint workers is. But
at least get some actual facts instead of just pulling numbers out of your
ass and quoting meaningless stats that you apparently have been unable to
comprehend.



  #16  
Old October 7th 09, 03:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ęslop
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Posts: 23
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?


"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

This anecdotal data is as I say strictly personal, and the real answer
to government competence must be sought in it's systemic context. My
opinion on that level would be that what would be found is
overwhelming inferiority when directly compared to the private sector.


And mine is the opposite, based on *first-hand* experience over quite a few
years. Is there incompetence in the government sector? Without a doubt.
I see it all the time. Is it pervasive? Not at all. I have actually found
more incompetence in the consultants we engage from the private sector than
in our own workforce. But this is only my anecdotal evidence.


  #17  
Old October 7th 09, 04:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dudley Henriques[_2_]
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Posts: 2,546
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?

On Oct 6, 10:45*pm, "Ęslop" wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message

...

This anecdotal data is as I say strictly personal, and the real answer
to government competence must be sought in it's systemic context. My
opinion on that level would be that what would be found is
overwhelming inferiority when directly compared to the private sector.


And mine is the opposite, based on *first-hand* experience over quite a few
years. Is there incompetence in the government sector? Without a doubt.
I see it all the time. Is it pervasive? Not at all. I have actually found
more incompetence in the consultants we engage from the private sector than
in our own workforce. But this is only my anecdotal evidence.


As is always the case in these "discussions" :-)) opinions vary of
course.
DH
  #18  
Old October 7th 09, 04:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ęslop
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?


"Ross" wrote in message
...

I believe the post would be more appropriate to the elected officials in
Washington.


And with that, I cannot argue :-)


  #19  
Old October 7th 09, 05:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mike Ash
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Posts: 299
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?

In article ,
Dallas wrote:

Government sector jobs are now more than 50% of total employment in this
country and considering benefits, they now make double the average private
sector salary.


I usually stay out of these discussions but this is just absurd.

50% of total employment and 2x the average private sector salary would
imply that 67% of total salaries in the US are paid to government
employees, and only 33% of total salaries are paid to private employees.

And that is just the minimum. You're claiming "more than 50%", which
would mean more than 67% of total salaries are paid to government
employees, and less than 33% to the private sector.

Did you stop and think about what your claims meant before you made
them? These numbers simply don't line up. How are they getting enough
money from that 33% pool to pay for the 67% pool? It simply doesn't pass
the smell test. If you think about it for a moment, I bet you'll agree.

When you claim big numbers, stop for a moment and see if they actually
make sense. It will save much silliness and conflict if you do so. If
you still believe them, then do us all a favor and actually back up
crazy numbers with sources when you post them.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
  #20  
Old October 7th 09, 06:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Jim Logajan
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Posts: 1,958
Default 61.56 BFR Whaaaat?

Mike Ash wrote:
In article ,
Dallas wrote:

Government sector jobs are now more than 50% of total employment in
this country and considering benefits, they now make double the
average private sector salary.


I usually stay out of these discussions but this is just absurd.

50% of total employment and 2x the average private sector salary would
imply that 67% of total salaries in the US are paid to government
employees, and only 33% of total salaries are paid to private
employees.


Just for the record, historical federal income and expenditures are
available he

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy05/hist.html

Obviously not included are state and local taxes (typically income, sales,
and property taxes being the most well known.)

Federal outlays alone accounts for ~19.4% of GDP.

Including such state and local taxes, I think it is reasonable to assume
that government burden approaches a third of GDP - could be even one half.
I leave the actual research on the local government burden to someone who
isn't about to go to bed, as I am. ;-)

Also, because not all U.S. federal government expenditures are on direct
labor to government employees (think all that capital expenditure and use
of private services,) it is plausible (even if it may not be true) to claim
double salary compensation over private sector without having government
salary account for 67% of all salaries, public and private.
 




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