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#1
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Accident report on the midair at Tenino
Both pilots are well known and respected in the Puget Sound area. Amazing
that the pilot of the 170 was able to fly his plane at all: NTSB Identification: SEA04FA083B 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Sunday, May 16, 2004 in Tenino, WA Aircraft: Cessna 210J, registration: N3329S Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On May 16, 2004, approximately 2040 Pacific daylight time, a Cessna 170B, N3510D, and a Cessna 210J, N3329S, collided in flight approximately five nautical miles southeast of Tenino, Washington. The Cessna 170B had departed Roseburg, Oregon, and was en route to the Wax Orchards Airport, Vashon Island, Washington. The Cessna 210J had departed Camas, Washington, and was en route to Paine Field, Everett, Washington. There was one occupant onboard each aircraft. The pilot of the Cessna 210J, a certificated commercial pilot, sustained fatal injuries while the certificated private pilot of the Cessna 170B sustained minor injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and both aircraft were operated under 14 CFR Part 91 regulations. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), both pilots received weather briefings but neither pilot filed a flight plan, and neither aircraft had requested or were receiving air route traffic control radar services at the time of the collision. The pilot of the Cessna 170B reported that he was level at 3,500 feet mean sea level and had just changed his heading from 350 degrees to 318 degrees. The pilot stated, "I was looking down at my map as part of this 'normal scan' that I do when the collision occurred." The pilot stated, "I never saw the other airplane." The pilot further stated that the aircraft pitched down and went into an uncommanded left turn, requiring him to stabilize the angle of bank by holding full right aileron. The pilot reported that he then realized that the engine had come off the airplane, but he was still able to maintain the nose down attitude and keep his speed up. The pilot further reported that he then attempted to move the elevator and rudder enough to see if they were responsive, which they were. The pilot stated that as the airplane continued in the left turn through a southerly heading to an easterly heading he saw what appeared to be parts of "something" falling out of the sky below him. The pilot said, "...that's when I thought I'd been hit by another airplane." The pilot reported that as he proceeded turning and losing altitude rapidly, he picked out a field where he thought he could land. The pilot said, "I moved the flap handle a little to see how much they moved, and when I saw they worked I decided to add some flap to reduce my speed as I approached the field." The pilot stated that he then applied right rudder to raise the left wing before "clipping" the tops of some trees and going through one power line wire which bordered the field on the south. The pilot stated that after the airplane impacted the ground and came to rest, he immediately exited the airplane and sought help at a nearby house. The aircraft had come to rest in an inverted position on a magnetic heading of 120 degrees. There was no post impact fire. A witness, who is also a private pilot and the owner of the property where the Cessna 210J came to rest, reported that while in his house he heard an airplane flying around, prompting him to go outside to see what it was. The witness stated that he looked up and thought he heard airplanes overhead, then saw the two accident aircraft coming together. The witness further stated, "[i] saw them about 5 to 8 seconds before they hit. Both were straight and level. Neither took evasive action in any way." The witness stated that one was heading north and the other one was heading northeast when he saw them hit and parts started coming at him. The witness further stated that after the parts hit the ground he looked up again and saw "the silver aircraft" gliding north without an engine before it went out of sight over some trees. The Cessna 170B's engine was located approximately one-half mile southwest of where the aircraft came to rest. The airplane's right cabin door and left lower cowling were found approximately three-quarters of a mile south of this location. The Cessna 210J's engine, propeller, and main cabin area were located approximately one-quarter of a mile south of where the Cessna 170B came to rest. The wing was located approximately 400 feet south of the main cabin area, and the airplane's tail section was discovered in a thick brush area one-half mile south of the main cabin. At 2031, a special aviation surface weather observation taken at the Olympia Airport, Olympia, Washington, located 11 nautical miles northwest of the collision reported wind 220 degrees at 5 knots, visibility 10 statute miles, broken clouds at 2,600 feet, overcast clouds at 4,900 feet, temperature 12 degrees C, dew point 7 degrees C, and an altimeter of 30.03 inches of Mercury. |
#2
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OK on that heading shouldn't you be at Even + 500' for VFR? Amazing that
the CG was not shifted aft so far as to make it impossible to pitch down. |
#3
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Karl Treier ) wrote:
OK on that heading shouldn't you be at Even + 500' for VFR? This would depend on the terrain elevation. VFR cruise altitudes are required above 3,000 feet AGL (above ground level). -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#4
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Peter R. ) wrote:
Karl Treier ) wrote: OK on that heading shouldn't you be at Even + 500' for VFR? This would depend on the terrain elevation. VFR cruise altitudes are required above 3,000 feet AGL (above ground level). Whoops, I should add that this is valid for VFR flight in the US, where the accident occurred. I have no idea about the regulations in other countries. -- Peter ----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups ---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =--- |
#5
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"Karl Treier" wrote in message ... OK on that heading shouldn't you be at Even + 500' for VFR? Not required if you're within 3000 feet of the surface. The report doesn't give a precise location, but there is terrain southeast of Tenino of sufficient elevation. |
#6
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The C-170B must have one helluva lot of elevator authority. I can't belive
that the CG wasn't back in the tail somewhere after losing the whole engine! -- Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love America "C J Campbell" wrote in message ... Both pilots are well known and respected in the Puget Sound area. Amazing that the pilot of the 170 was able to fly his plane at all: NTSB Identification: SEA04FA083B 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Sunday, May 16, 2004 in Tenino, WA Aircraft: Cessna 210J, registration: N3329S Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On May 16, 2004, approximately 2040 Pacific daylight time, a Cessna 170B, N3510D, and a Cessna 210J, N3329S, collided in flight approximately five nautical miles southeast of Tenino, Washington. The Cessna 170B had departed Roseburg, Oregon, and was en route to the Wax Orchards Airport, Vashon Island, Washington. The Cessna 210J had departed Camas, Washington, and was en route to Paine Field, Everett, Washington. There was one occupant onboard each aircraft. The pilot of the Cessna 210J, a certificated commercial pilot, sustained fatal injuries while the certificated private pilot of the Cessna 170B sustained minor injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and both aircraft were operated under 14 CFR Part 91 regulations. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), both pilots received weather briefings but neither pilot filed a flight plan, and neither aircraft had requested or were receiving air route traffic control radar services at the time of the collision. The pilot of the Cessna 170B reported that he was level at 3,500 feet mean sea level and had just changed his heading from 350 degrees to 318 degrees. The pilot stated, "I was looking down at my map as part of this 'normal scan' that I do when the collision occurred." The pilot stated, "I never saw the other airplane." The pilot further stated that the aircraft pitched down and went into an uncommanded left turn, requiring him to stabilize the angle of bank by holding full right aileron. The pilot reported that he then realized that the engine had come off the airplane, but he was still able to maintain the nose down attitude and keep his speed up. The pilot further reported that he then attempted to move the elevator and rudder enough to see if they were responsive, which they were. The pilot stated that as the airplane continued in the left turn through a southerly heading to an easterly heading he saw what appeared to be parts of "something" falling out of the sky below him. The pilot said, "...that's when I thought I'd been hit by another airplane." The pilot reported that as he proceeded turning and losing altitude rapidly, he picked out a field where he thought he could land. The pilot said, "I moved the flap handle a little to see how much they moved, and when I saw they worked I decided to add some flap to reduce my speed as I approached the field." The pilot stated that he then applied right rudder to raise the left wing before "clipping" the tops of some trees and going through one power line wire which bordered the field on the south. The pilot stated that after the airplane impacted the ground and came to rest, he immediately exited the airplane and sought help at a nearby house. The aircraft had come to rest in an inverted position on a magnetic heading of 120 degrees. There was no post impact fire. A witness, who is also a private pilot and the owner of the property where the Cessna 210J came to rest, reported that while in his house he heard an airplane flying around, prompting him to go outside to see what it was. The[i] witness stated that he looked up and thought he heard airplanes overhead, then saw the two accident aircraft coming together. The witness further stated, " saw them about 5 to 8 seconds before they hit. Both were straight and level. Neither took evasive action in any way." The witness stated that one was heading north and the other one was heading northeast when he saw them hit and parts started coming at him. The witness further stated that after the parts hit the ground he looked up again and saw "the silver aircraft" gliding north without an engine before it went out of sight over some trees. The Cessna 170B's engine was located approximately one-half mile southwest of where the aircraft came to rest. The airplane's right cabin door and left lower cowling were found approximately three-quarters of a mile south of this location. The Cessna 210J's engine, propeller, and main cabin area were located approximately one-quarter of a mile south of where the Cessna 170B came to rest. The wing was located approximately 400 feet south of the main cabin area, and the airplane's tail section was discovered in a thick brush area one-half mile south of the main cabin. At 2031, a special aviation surface weather observation taken at the Olympia Airport, Olympia, Washington, located 11 nautical miles northwest of the collision reported wind 220 degrees at 5 knots, visibility 10 statute miles, broken clouds at 2,600 feet, overcast clouds at 4,900 feet, temperature 12 degrees C, dew point 7 degrees C, and an altimeter of 30.03 inches of Mercury. |
#7
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Both pilots are well known and respected in the Puget Sound area. Amazing
that the pilot of the 170 was able to fly his plane at all: This is the second NTSB report I've read where pilots were able to maintain control of an engine-less plane. How is this possible? Without an engine up front, the CG would pitch so far aft that the plane should fall like a maple leaf -- yet these two guys were able to nose the plane over and maintain flight. How can this be? -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#8
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"Karl Treier" wrote in message ... OK on that heading shouldn't you be at Even + 500' for VFR? Amazing that the CG was not shifted aft so far as to make it impossible to pitch down. It appears that both planes were below 3000' AGL. Although Tenino is at about 300' the surrounding terrain pokes up over 1000.' It is a favorite area for instructors to demonstrate to students how rising terrain can meet lowering clouds, since such conditions can be found there very frequently. In fact, that is where my instructor taught me about CFIT when I was a student. Reading the accident report it appears that both planes may have had their altitude restricted by low clouds, which is pretty much a normal state of affairs around here. The report notes that neither pilot was using flight following. It does not say that flight following might well have not been available in that area and that altitude. Radio reception out there is spotty at best. I almost always lose both radio and radar contact somewhere in the area south of SCOOT, even though I am flying a published IFR approach and on an IFR flight plan. The other thing is that from that area north there is a lot of flight training going on, with airplanes constantly maneuvering, climbing, descending, and practicing IFR maneuvers with one pilot under the hood. It is just inside the 15 DME arc for the VOR/DME approach into Olympia and near the final approach course and not all that far from the published holding pattern for the missed approaches into Olympia. There are likely to be two or three planes flying these approaches at any one time. Consequently there are so many airplanes flying at odd altitudes and odd directions that for all practical purposes the VFR altitude rules might as well not exist. For that matter, these have to be the most widely ignored regulations in the country, especially in the West. You have to keep a sharp eye out. Sometimes even that is not enough. I have always been told that it is impossible to pitch down if your engine comes off. You will pitch up, stall, and die. That is what I have always been told. I guess in a 170, at least, that is not true. I would guess that the engine weighs about 270 lbs. with accessories and sits about 20 inches forward of the datum. He also lost the prop and part of the cowl. The 170 is a tailwheel airplane, so landing gear would be unaffected. (Now there is an interesting argument in favor of tailwheel airplanes -- if your engine falls off, you don't lose your nose gear!) At the same time, losing all that weight might improve your glide significantly. He probably would not even have nosed over if he hadn't hit the trees and power line. |
#9
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On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 22:59:03 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote: Minor nit... there's a small error in the report. The LH cabin door of the 170 was knocked off the airplane in flight (not the RH door) and it was found near the section of cowling mentioned. I've since heard of another 170 that lost the entire FWF in flight when one prop blade departed the aircraft (resulting imbalance shook the whole FWF off of the airplane). There is supposedly a picture hanging on the wall someplace near Spokane (Felts?) of this thing gliding down with no FWF. Bela P. Havasreti [i] Both pilots are well known and respected in the Puget Sound area. Amazing that the pilot of the 170 was able to fly his plane at all: NTSB Identification: SEA04FA083B 14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation Accident occurred Sunday, May 16, 2004 in Tenino, WA Aircraft: Cessna 210J, registration: N3329S Injuries: 1 Fatal, 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On May 16, 2004, approximately 2040 Pacific daylight time, a Cessna 170B, N3510D, and a Cessna 210J, N3329S, collided in flight approximately five nautical miles southeast of Tenino, Washington. The Cessna 170B had departed Roseburg, Oregon, and was en route to the Wax Orchards Airport, Vashon Island, Washington. The Cessna 210J had departed Camas, Washington, and was en route to Paine Field, Everett, Washington. There was one occupant onboard each aircraft. The pilot of the Cessna 210J, a certificated commercial pilot, sustained fatal injuries while the certificated private pilot of the Cessna 170B sustained minor injuries. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and both aircraft were operated under 14 CFR Part 91 regulations. According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), both pilots received weather briefings but neither pilot filed a flight plan, and neither aircraft had requested or were receiving air route traffic control radar services at the time of the collision. The pilot of the Cessna 170B reported that he was level at 3,500 feet mean sea level and had just changed his heading from 350 degrees to 318 degrees. The pilot stated, "I was looking down at my map as part of this 'normal scan' that I do when the collision occurred." The pilot stated, "I never saw the other airplane." The pilot further stated that the aircraft pitched down and went into an uncommanded left turn, requiring him to stabilize the angle of bank by holding full right aileron. The pilot reported that he then realized that the engine had come off the airplane, but he was still able to maintain the nose down attitude and keep his speed up. The pilot further reported that he then attempted to move the elevator and rudder enough to see if they were responsive, which they were. The pilot stated that as the airplane continued in the left turn through a southerly heading to an easterly heading he saw what appeared to be parts of "something" falling out of the sky below him. The pilot said, "...that's when I thought I'd been hit by another airplane." The pilot reported that as he proceeded turning and losing altitude rapidly, he picked out a field where he thought he could land. The pilot said, "I moved the flap handle a little to see how much they moved, and when I saw they worked I decided to add some flap to reduce my speed as I approached the field." The pilot stated that he then applied right rudder to raise the left wing before "clipping" the tops of some trees and going through one power line wire which bordered the field on the south. The pilot stated that after the airplane impacted the ground and came to rest, he immediately exited the airplane and sought help at a nearby house. The aircraft had come to rest in an inverted position on a magnetic heading of 120 degrees. There was no post impact fire. A witness, who is also a private pilot and the owner of the property where the Cessna 210J came to rest, reported that while in his house he heard an airplane flying around, prompting him to go outside to see what it was. The witness stated that he looked up and thought he heard airplanes overhead, then saw the two accident aircraft coming together. The witness further stated, " saw them about 5 to 8 seconds before they hit. Both were straight and level. Neither took evasive action in any way." The witness stated that one was heading north and the other one was heading northeast when he saw them hit and parts started coming at him. The witness further stated that after the parts hit the ground he looked up again and saw "the silver aircraft" gliding north without an engine before it went out of sight over some trees. The Cessna 170B's engine was located approximately one-half mile southwest of where the aircraft came to rest. The airplane's right cabin door and left lower cowling were found approximately three-quarters of a mile south of this location. The Cessna 210J's engine, propeller, and main cabin area were located approximately one-quarter of a mile south of where the Cessna 170B came to rest. The wing was located approximately 400 feet south of the main cabin area, and the airplane's tail section was discovered in a thick brush area one-half mile south of the main cabin. At 2031, a special aviation surface weather observation taken at the Olympia Airport, Olympia, Washington, located 11 nautical miles northwest of the collision reported wind 220 degrees at 5 knots, visibility 10 statute miles, broken clouds at 2,600 feet, overcast clouds at 4,900 feet, temperature 12 degrees C, dew point 7 degrees C, and an altimeter of 30.03 inches of Mercury. |
#10
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C J Campbell wrote:
Both pilots are well known and respected in the Puget Sound area. Amazing that the pilot of the 170 was able to fly his plane at all: "...neither aircraft had requested or were receiving air route traffic control radar services at the time of the collision." What a shame. I never, ever fly without at least trying to get traffic advisories, and it's very rare I don't get it. As a student, because NONE of my instructors ever did, I didn't think to much about it (they are the pros, don't you know?). Now, I consider anyone who is to lazy to get flight following as someone too foolish to fly with. Are there still instructors out there who still opt out of this (what I consider mandatory) flying aid? |
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