Motorgliders on OLC?

On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:14:27 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:29:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:

I would never make any derogatory remarks about motorgliders… or motorglider pilots. Someday I may be so old that I no longer enjoy the intense thrill, excitement and adventure of flying a pure sailplane cross-country.



Mike Koerner



Same here. No disrespect whatsoever. On the contrary, some of my best buddies are flying motorgliders and are also better pilots, as they fly further AND rarely use the engine to make it back. you know who you are I am hoping someday to switch to a motorglider myself. But when I'll do, I will push the envelope further than I do now, thanks to he extra security. And yes, I certainly do fly in the high desert of the west. And yet, I can only recall one time in the last 10 years that a motorglider buddy of mine needed a ground retrieve (which I provided btw), while I cant count how many times myself or my non motorglider buddies needed ground retrieve. So I don't buy this "motorglider does not get you very far" claim. Not even in the high desert. True, it wouldn't get me the whole way back from where I go sometimes, but one rarely lands out so far from home anyway, just doesn't always make it all the way home. And none of my cross country buddies start their engine at 1500 feet AGL, unless it is obviously hopeless. So there is obvious pros and cons. You give up some of the intense thrill and adventure of flying pure sailplane cross country, for the convenient and less stress of flying even further or to places you otherwise wouldn't reach with a pure sailplane. And last, the main reason why my motorglider buddies still need to do ground retrieves every now and then, is to retrieve me...



Ramy

I look forward to the day (nay, season) that you actually fly a motorglider so that you will be qualified to speak about them. Until then, you are simply SPECULATING (talk is ALWAYS cheap!). MG pilots don't land out much because they fly them with the same philosophy as non-MG pilots.

At the higher altitudes of the high desert the effective retrieve distance drops dramatically (I leave it as an excersise to the student to figure out why), making self retrieves problematic. You can get yourself out of a localized problem and get you to another thermal. But if there are no other thermals to be found, good luck!

The BEST advice I can give to prospective MG pilots is to fly it as you would a pure glider. Then you won't be disappointed. If you want to push the envelope, fine - just don't expect to make it back!

Tom

Two cents from a novice MG pilot: I was waiting for Tom's comments. The
engine is great for getting out of a local screwup (IF it works!) but not
for getting you home. Two examples:

Flying out of Black Forest in a friend's ASW-24E and getting too low near
Canon City, extracted the engine and begain climbing when I ran out of gas.
Had to land at Canon City and, since that ship required a special pump and
refueling rig, Claudio had to come and get me with the trailer.

Flying out of Moriarty in a friend's DG-500M-22 with my wife in the back
seat and down to about 1,500 AGL above the airport, I tried to demonstrate
the engine to her (I'd taken an aero tow). The engine would not extract.
My leg had bumped the maintenance switch guard disabling the engine control
panel.

It's certainly great to have friends who will let me use their fine
equipment and I respect the limitations. I will only attempt to use the
engine with 1,500 feet above a LANDABLE field, and I will not put myself in
a position where that is not possible.


"2G" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, May 22, 2013 12:14:27 AM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 10:29:39 PM UTC-7, wrote:

I would never make any derogatory remarks about motorgliders… or
motorglider pilots. Someday I may be so old that I no longer enjoy the
intense thrill, excitement and adventure of flying a pure sailplane
cross-country.



Mike Koerner



Same here. No disrespect whatsoever. On the contrary, some of my best
buddies are flying motorgliders and are also better pilots, as they fly
further AND rarely use the engine to make it back. you know who you are
I am hoping someday to switch to a motorglider myself. But when I'll do,
I will push the envelope further than I do now, thanks to he extra
security. And yes, I certainly do fly in the high desert of the west. And
yet, I can only recall one time in the last 10 years that a motorglider
buddy of mine needed a ground retrieve (which I provided btw), while I
cant count how many times myself or my non motorglider buddies needed
ground retrieve. So I don't buy this "motorglider does not get you very
far" claim. Not even in the high desert. True, it wouldn't get me the
whole way back from where I go sometimes, but one rarely lands out so far
from home anyway, just doesn't always make it all the way home. And none
of my cross country buddies start their engine at 1500 feet AGL, unless it
is obviously hopeless. So there is obvious pros and cons. You give up some
of the intense thrill and adventure of flying pure sailplane cross
country, for the convenient and less stress of flying even further or to
places you otherwise wouldn't reach with a pure sailplane. And last, the
main reason why my motorglider buddies still need to do ground retrieves
every now and then, is to retrieve me...



Ramy

I look forward to the day (nay, season) that you actually fly a motorglider
so that you will be qualified to speak about them. Until then, you are
simply SPECULATING (talk is ALWAYS cheap!). MG pilots don't land out much
because they fly them with the same philosophy as non-MG pilots.

At the higher altitudes of the high desert the effective retrieve distance
drops dramatically (I leave it as an excersise to the student to figure out
why), making self retrieves problematic. You can get yourself out of a
localized problem and get you to another thermal. But if there are no other
thermals to be found, good luck!

The BEST advice I can give to prospective MG pilots is to fly it as you
would a pure glider. Then you won't be disappointed. If you want to push the
envelope, fine - just don't expect to make it back!

Tom

On Monday, April 29, 2013 10:30:09 AM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
I would like to see how many points the motorglider guys would end up scoring if their motor was rendered unavailable after launch. A friend of mine couldn't get his motor started one day, so he took an aero tow, and his flying was much different that day. It's just not the same when you know you can crank up that iron thermal an motor home any time you want. It's definitely not a level playing field.



Boggs

I was struggling at one of my first contests when a more experienced pilot suggested that if we could meet up in the start circle we could do a lead and follow so I could see how it is really done by someone that knows what they are doing. A day or so later we did meet up in the start circle and I followed him out to the first turn point (18 miles). Things went pretty well, and the trip to the next turn point went right past the airport, on the trip outbound from the first turn point I couldn't figure out what he was doing, we seemed to pass up good lift, we got lower and lower, finally ending up very near the airport, close to my quit flying and start landing height threshold. We found an exceptionally robust thermal and I abandoned the lead a follow scheme because I didn't like flying it that close to the ground before thermalling back up. (At the time I did not know he had an engine.) At dinner that night I asked him what he was thinking on that leg back from the first turn point, looking for something that would explain what looked like a very poor strategy. His response was "I thought that second leg was too slow, we were not finding any lift and I was going to fly back to the start circle, re-light myself with the engine and start over"

This led to the creation of a new rule for contest and cross country flights
NEVER FOLLOW ANYONE WITH AN ENGINE

SF