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#11
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
Of course, witness accounts are typically fairly useless especially when it comes to estimating height but still, I found the following comment interesting" "Yeah, I was actually there on the mountain today, and had an opportunity to see the aftermath. over the past few days that glider has been getting uncomfortably close to many chair lifts on the mountain. Dangerously close in my opinion. While riding Dipper Express the other day, I was scared it was going to hit the lift while I was on it." Matt Michael Safety Monkey |
#12
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
On Feb 6, 6:31*pm, matt michael wrote:
Another interesting question is to look at the elevation of the landing site relative to elevation/distance to South Tahoe airport. Having done much flying in and around the mountains on that side of Lake Tahoe, I can tell you that just because a particular airport may be within straight line gliding distance doesn't mean you can get there. If you're low (for whatever stupid reason) and in the mountains, you're left with trying to sneak through low points in the ridge to get to the lower ground. You may get through one pass, only to discover that there is yet another ridge on the other side which you can't quite clear. If you're well and truly screwed, you turn around only to find that you no longer have enough altitude to clear the pass you just came through. I haven't messed up quite that badly, but I did have to make it out of that sort of trap once by dodging trees. One tends to get religion after an incident like that, and allow (a lot) more margin... Marc |
#13
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
I wonder if the flight computer still has data on it from the previous
days to support the comment below. If it does and this person was soaring over the ski area I'll have a lot less sympathy for this landout. Sounds like a substantial lack of good judgement if the claim made below is true, and I'm inclined to suspect it's likely true. "Yeah, I was actually there on the mountain today, and had an opportunity to see the aftermath. over the past few days that glider has been getting uncomfortably close to many chair lifts on the mountain. Dangerously close in my opinion. While riding Dipper Express the other day, I was scared it was going to hit the lift while I was on it." |
#14
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
Sean Fidler wrote:
Agreed. Excellent job landing safely here. Safely? Safely for whom? Safely for the skiers? Safely for that snow boarder who reportedly had to duck to not have his head clipped? This landing was no "excellent job" but a highly irresponsible and reckless action which I sure hope the FAA will take a closer look at. It was sheer luck that nobody was hurt or even killed. |
#15
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
On Feb 6, 3:29*pm, Bruno wrote:
"Outraged..." * As if the pilots wanted to land there. Nice job landing in a tough spot. *I am just glad that none of the farmers in any of the fields I have landed in have been, "outraged!" Bruno - B4 Bruno -- Take a look at a chart. Then see if you still think this was a "Nice job." This link should do it http://runwayfinder.com/?loc=TVL The top of the ski area in question is at 2:00, about 6 miles from TVL and a few thousand feet higher. The landing site (the bottom of the ski area) is quite close to TVL. The news article mentions a golf course being rejected due to trees. Look where the ski area parking lot, the golf course and TVL are on the satellite view. -Evan Ludeman / T8 |
#16
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
But it's obvious - he had to land when the tail fell off!! Kirk 66 Yes, not only that but he is still dragging the tow rope. |
#17
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
On 2/6/2012 11:41 AM, Brad wrote:
Snip... Not to be contentious, but more fodder for the safety monkeys Chortle!!! (I'll get back to this topic shortly...) ....................looks like this guy did a fantastic job getting the sailplane down safe and with all in 1 piece. Always a good thing when the landing can be walked away from; I've known of lots of others since getting into soaring that didn't end so serendipitously, even withOUT the stress this (as it developed over time) situation surely induced. Back to "safety monkeys" for a bit, I (and many others) well remember a long-time, opinionated, disputatious (contentious?), high-time pilot well-known in the experimental power aviation field, whose opinions were always crystal clear. He had built and test flown his own RV-?, and test flown at least one other homebuilt of which I'm aware. One of his opinions (which can presumably be found in the archives of the rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup) was that a monkey could be trained to fly airplanes...but probably not helicopters - they required more brains or SOMEthing. I'm not certain of his opinion regarding the brains to fly gliders, which I know he had flown IN (don't remember if he obtained the rating). In any event, he obviously had a pretty high opinion of his own skill set and cranial power...and I gather not without substantiating reasons. He died not long after a post-T.O.-crash of his Lancair (which I believe he purchased), which also seriously injured his wife. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...2012120000.pdf Maybe we're too smart to safely fly, because evidently he crashed a flyable/flying airplane because he failed to latch/verify-latching the canopy, and was unable to aviate, navigate and communicate in that order. My point is, I'm OK with those who would rather kill the messenger in private than apply safety lessons which may one day help mitigate the severity of their own situation (regardless of how the situation may develop), but I'm not so OK with those who would casually and publicly use a contentions "throw away comment" ostensibly serving primarily as a means of ending discussion about something of critical importance to open-minded, thoughtful aviators. I am interested in learning how the "loss of air" caused this to happen. I will not be criticizing the pilot, as we are all prone to being in the news someday, despite the never ending articles in Soaring about safety. Brad "[N]ever ending articles in Soaring about safety" hunh? There's one sure way to end them, but our record strongly suggests the human race is unlikely to cooperate. Ignore such articles (and related lessons) if it floats your boat...but you'll be intentionally blowing off some possibility of learning from others' mistakes. Rotsa Ruck, Bob W. Unofficial Safety Monkey |
#18
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
On Feb 7, 12:14*pm, BobW wrote:
On 2/6/2012 11:41 AM, Brad wrote: Snip... Not to be contentious, but more fodder for the safety monkeys Chortle!!! (I'll get back to this topic shortly...) ...................looks like this guy did a fantastic job getting the sailplane down safe and with all in 1 piece. Always a good thing when the landing can be walked away from; I've known of lots of others since getting into soaring that didn't end so serendipitously, even withOUT the stress this (as it developed over time) situation surely induced. Back to "safety monkeys" for a bit, I (and many others) well remember a long-time, opinionated, disputatious (contentious?), high-time pilot well-known in the experimental power aviation field, whose opinions were always crystal clear. He had built and test flown his own RV-?, and test flown at least one other homebuilt of which I'm aware. One of his opinions (which can presumably be found in the archives of the rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup) was that a monkey could be trained to fly airplanes...but probably not helicopters - they required more brains or SOMEthing. I'm not certain of his opinion regarding the brains to fly gliders, which I know he had flown IN (don't remember if he obtained the rating). In any event, he obviously had a pretty high opinion of his own skill set and cranial power...and I gather not without substantiating reasons. He died not long after a post-T.O.-crash of his Lancair (which I believe he purchased), which also seriously injured his wife. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...hb3my1iryqyoqd... Maybe we're too smart to safely fly, because evidently he crashed a flyable/flying airplane because he failed to latch/verify-latching the canopy, and was unable to aviate, navigate and communicate in that order. My point is, I'm OK with those who would rather kill the messenger in private than apply safety lessons which may one day help mitigate the severity of their own situation (regardless of how the situation may develop), but I'm not so OK with those who would casually and publicly use a contentions "throw away comment" ostensibly serving primarily as a means of ending discussion about something of critical importance to open-minded, thoughtful aviators. I am interested in learning how the "loss of air" caused this to happen. I will not be criticizing the pilot, as we are all prone to being in the news someday, despite the never ending articles in Soaring about safety. Brad "[N]ever ending articles in Soaring about safety" hunh? There's one sure way to end them, but our record strongly suggests the human race is unlikely to cooperate. Ignore such articles (and related lessons) if it floats your boat...but you'll be intentionally blowing off some possibility of learning from others' mistakes. Rotsa Ruck, Bob W. Unofficial Safety Monkey Are you making some kind of reference to my building and flying the Tetra-15 with the guy and his Lancair? rust rundering, Brad |
#19
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
Brad, take your meds. He's not referring to you at all.
-Kevin |
#20
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Duo NV lands on Heavenly Ski Resort. Not kidding...
On 2/7/2012 1:29 PM, Brad wrote:
On Feb 7, 12:14 pm, wrote: On 2/6/2012 11:41 AM, Brad wrote: Snip... Not to be contentious, but more fodder for the safety monkeys Chortle!!! (I'll get back to this topic shortly...) ...................looks like this guy did a fantastic job getting the sailplane down safe and with all in 1 piece. Always a good thing when the landing can be walked away from; I've known of lots of others since getting into soaring that didn't end so serendipitously, even withOUT the stress this (as it developed over time) situation surely induced. Back to "safety monkeys" for a bit, I (and many others) well remember a long-time, opinionated, disputatious (contentious?), high-time pilot well-known in the experimental power aviation field, whose opinions were always crystal clear. He had built and test flown his own RV-?, and test flown at least one other homebuilt of which I'm aware. One of his opinions (which can presumably be found in the archives of the rec.aviation.homebuilt newsgroup) was that a monkey could be trained to fly airplanes...but probably not helicopters - they required more brains or SOMEthing. I'm not certain of his opinion regarding the brains to fly gliders, which I know he had flown IN (don't remember if he obtained the rating). In any event, he obviously had a pretty high opinion of his own skill set and cranial power...and I gather not without substantiating reasons. He died not long after a post-T.O.-crash of his Lancair (which I believe he purchased), which also seriously injured his wife. http://dms.ntsb.gov/aviation/Acciden...hb3my1iryqyoqd... Maybe we're too smart to safely fly, because evidently he crashed a flyable/flying airplane because he failed to latch/verify-latching the canopy, and was unable to aviate, navigate and communicate in that order. My point is, I'm OK with those who would rather kill the messenger in private than apply safety lessons which may one day help mitigate the severity of their own situation (regardless of how the situation may develop), but I'm not so OK with those who would casually and publicly use a contentions "throw away comment" ostensibly serving primarily as a means of ending discussion about something of critical importance to open-minded, thoughtful aviators. I am interested in learning how the "loss of air" caused this to happen. I will not be criticizing the pilot, as we are all prone to being in the news someday, despite the never ending articles in Soaring about safety. Brad "[N]ever ending articles in Soaring about safety" hunh? There's one sure way to end them, but our record strongly suggests the human race is unlikely to cooperate. Ignore such articles (and related lessons) if it floats your boat...but you'll be intentionally blowing off some possibility of learning from others' mistakes. Rotsa Ruck, Bob W. Unofficial Safety Monkey Are you making some kind of reference to my building and flying the Tetra-15 with the guy and his Lancair? rust rundering, Brad Until posed, that particular question never entered my skull. (I believe the Lancair's test hours had been flown off well prior to the crash by someone entirely unrelated to the above synopsis.) And for the record (having owned nothing but single-seat, experimentally licensed sailplanes since 1976, including 195 hours in an HP-14), I hope all the test flying of your initial example and all future examples of the HP-24 go safely and with a minimum of unwanted excitement. But since my initial effort evidently was insufficiently clear, here's a 2nd attempt... I think a strong case can be made that pilots who intentionally ignore (deprecate?) the lessons available through internalization of others' misfortunes are doing themselves and future prospects for general aviation a disservice. Respectfully, Bob W. (USM) |
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