If yiu didn't fight in WW II.....

Jack wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

The gathering and processing of intelligence never
was a part of my job.

Clearly true.

Nor was it yours, clearly.

My job was to simply fly checks, federal bank notes, nuclear
medicine stuff etc. in Cessna 210's.

Which qualifies you to do what exactly (beside comment on the difficulties
of living the life of a bottom feeder in the realm of professional
aviation)?

Shows how much YOU know about professional aviation (try flight
instructing someday and enjoy having roadkill for dinner every night).
But hey, as bad as it was (and occassionally still is) flying damn
sure beats working for a living!

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Lack of enforcement and apprehension is one thing, lack of airstrikes
against Taliban and Al-Quida training camps is an entirely different
thing.

Those decisions are made by the Government not the USAF,

The government relys in part on Air Force intelligence resources to
make those decisions. You can continue to blame 9/11 on everyone
BUT the Air Force if you wish, but that's like blaming everyone BUT
the Army Air Corp for Dec 7, 1941.

The Army commander at Pearl Harbor was rightly blamed for
not acting on the warning passed to him by higher command
that war was imminent. If you have evidence of a similar failure
by the USAF prior to Sept 11 feel free to post it. I have seen none
so far..

That's because the jury's still out with regards to whose all to blame
for dropping the ball on 9/11. And I'm still curious as to whether or
not our interceptors that were scrambled on 9/11 were armed, or not?

blame the President and his advisers if you feel there were grounds for
such airstrikes but I dont recall any clamour from you on the
subject before Sept 11 2001

The gathering and processing of intelligence never was a part of my
job. My job was to simply fly checks, federal bank notes, nuclear
medicine stuff etc. in Cessna 210's.

So you are merely exercising 20/20 hindsight,

Nobody predicted 9/11, but that doesn't mean that many of those
in the know didn't realize that a major terrorist attack was imminent.
I've stated numerous times already that civilians are primarily
responsible for "dropping the ball," however, I simply don't think the
military (that means any branch thereof) deserves a pass when it
comes to doling out the blame.

From: "Keith Willshaw"



"Mike Marron" wrote in message
.. .
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Lack of enforcement and apprehension is one thing, lack of airstrikes
against Taliban and Al-Quida training camps is an entirely different
thing.

Those decisions are made by the Government not the USAF,

The government relys in part on Air Force intelligence resources to
make those decisions. You can continue to blame 9/11 on everyone
BUT the Air Force if you wish, but that's like blaming everyone BUT
the Army Air Corp for Dec 7, 1941.


The Army commander at Pearl Harbor was rightly blamed for
not acting on the warning passed to him by higher command
that war was imminent. If you have evidence of a similar failure
by the USAF prior to Sept 11 feel free to post it. I have seen none
so far..

blame the President and his advisers if you feel there were grounds for
such airstrikes but I dont recall any clamour from you on the
subject before Sept 11 2001

The gathering and processing of intelligence never was a part of my
job. My job was to simply fly checks, federal bank notes, nuclear
medicine stuff etc. in Cessna 210's.


So you are merely exercising 20/20 hindsight, OK but who do you think
should have ordered airstrikes if not the US Government ?

Keith

Keith, we tried this a couple of months ago. Marron has no idea how the Air
Force functions or what its mission is. If you press him on what we should have
done he has no answers. He just doesn't understand we had no one to
pre-emptively strike nor does he understand the Air Force has no authority to
spy on or bomb anyone they choose. Furthermore he has no comprehension his
claims and attacks on the military in general, USAF in particular, VA, VFW etc
are all baseless. All you will get is personal attacks or comments about RAM is
not a VFW drinking party. He has also not noticed that no one has attacked his
education/training/flying experience or ratings.

A simple google search will prove all this.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

(B2431) wrote:

Marron has no idea how the Air Force functions or what its mission is.

Ooops, I thought you wanted to play nice? Guess not huh sarge?
You didn't even know that Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance, and
Reconnaissance (ISR) specialists EXISTED, much less that they were
heavily involved in counterterrorist ops. With regards to how the Air
Force functions or what its mission is, obviously to YOU its function
was to simply provide you with three hots and and a cot until you put
in your time so that you could kick back in the Florida sunshine for
the remainder of your pathetic existance.

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "Keith Willshaw"


Keith, we tried this a couple of months ago. Marron has no idea how the
Air
Force functions or what its mission is. If you press him on what we should
have
done he has no answers. He just doesn't understand we had no one to
pre-emptively strike nor does he understand the Air Force has no authority
to
spy on or bomb anyone they choose. Furthermore he has no comprehension his
claims and attacks on the military in general, USAF in particular, VA, VFW
etc
are all baseless. All you will get is personal attacks or comments about
RAM is
not a VFW drinking party. He has also not noticed that no one has attacked
his
education/training/flying experience or ratings.


True enough.

Personally I'd be extremely concerned if some branch of the armed
services started taking military action without orders from the
Government.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

Personally I'd be extremely concerned if some branch of the armed
services started taking military action without orders from the
Government.

Straw man argument. Nobody said some branch of the armed services
should commence military action w/o orders from the government. Nice
try, though. )

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
Jack wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

The gathering and processing of intelligence never
was a part of my job.

Clearly true.

Nor was it yours, clearly.

My job was to simply fly checks, federal bank notes, nuclear
medicine stuff etc. in Cessna 210's.

Which qualifies you to do what exactly (beside comment on the difficulties
of living the life of a bottom feeder in the realm of professional
aviation)?

Shows how much YOU know about professional aviation (try flight
instructing someday and enjoy having roadkill for dinner every night).
But hey, as bad as it was (and occassionally still is) flying damn
sure beats working for a living!

Funny you should say that. I know a guy who thought that way for the 15 ks a
year or so that he made flying those checks around in all kinds of wx. After
his accident, he kind of developed a different attitude about it. One of the
reasons was that he pretty much had to find some other way to buy the groceries
because he was devoted to eating, could no longer pass his flight physical, and
he couldn't get his folks to foot that kind of bill for him.

So now he's an RN and, aside from the seamier aspects of his job, like wiping an
occasional behind or two for patients who're too sick to do it for themselves,
he works twice as hard as he ever did when he was a heroic and adventurous
flyboy and earns three times as much and then some.

Not only that, but he sometimes mentions that his Mom and Dad still look on him
as a hero even though he no longer displays that "wild blue yonder" stare that
we old farts all tried to copy from the recruiting posters during those days
when our hearts were young and gay (in the old fashioned non-sexual sense).
(*-*)))

George Z.

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

Personally I'd be extremely concerned if some branch of the armed
services started taking military action without orders from the
Government.

Straw man argument. Nobody said some branch of the armed services
should commence military action w/o orders from the government. Nice
try, though. )


Yet you appear to blame them for not doing so.

Keith

"George Z. Bush" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

Shows how much YOU know about professional aviation (try flight
instructing someday and enjoy having roadkill for dinner every night).
But hey, as bad as it was (and occassionally still is) flying damn
sure beats working for a living!

Funny you should say that. I know a guy who thought that way for the 15 ks a
year or so that he made flying those checks around in all kinds of wx. After
his accident, he kind of developed a different attitude about it. One of the
reasons was that he pretty much had to find some other way to buy the groceries
because he was devoted to eating, could no longer pass his flight physical, and
he couldn't get his folks to foot that kind of bill for him.

So now he's an RN and, aside from the seamier aspects of his job, like wiping an
occasional behind or two for patients who're too sick to do it for themselves,
he works twice as hard as he ever did when he was a heroic and adventurous
flyboy and earns three times as much and then some.

Not only that, but he sometimes mentions that his Mom and Dad still look on him
as a hero even though he no longer displays that "wild blue yonder" stare that
we old farts all tried to copy from the recruiting posters during those days
when our hearts were young and gay (in the old fashioned non-sexual sense).
(*-*)))

My wife happens to be an ICU/CCU nurse but you couldn't pay me enough
$$$ to do what *she* does for a living (urk!)

Great story George )

"Mike Marron" wrote:
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

Personally I'd be extremely concerned if some branch of the armed
services started taking military action without orders from the
Government.

Straw man argument. Nobody said some branch of the armed services
should commence military action w/o orders from the government. Nice
try, though. )

Yet you appear to blame them for not doing so.

Bullroar. I'm going to give you and sergeant dan and anyone else
who thinks like y'all do the exact same advice I often give my ab
initio students when they try reading the FAR's. When you read these
postings Keith, simply ignore the white parts and just concentrate on
the black parts (thems called "words.") Don't read into things that
"appear" to be there cos' they really aren't there. Again, just focus
on the black parts (e.g: the "words") exactly as they're written and
forget about the white spaces in between and you won't confuse
yourself. OK?