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Js3 jet catastrophic failure.



 
 
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  #81  
Old September 13th 18, 03:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Emir Sherbi
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Posts: 64
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

Samsung INR18650 - 25R 2500mAh 30A 3.7V
SONY VTC6 18650 3000mAh US18650VTC6 IMR

Depending on power needed, weight limit and money limit. Any of those.
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  #82  
Old September 13th 18, 10:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Borgelt[_2_]
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Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On Thursday, 13 September 2018 12:57:27 UTC+10, Emir Sherbi wrote:
Samsung INR18650 - 25R 2500mAh 30A 3.7V
SONY VTC6 18650 3000mAh US18650VTC6 IMR

Depending on power needed, weight limit and money limit. Any of those.


Emir, those are both Li Co type chemistry. Not safe. You cannot ship on a passenger aircraft and maybe not by air at all.
Sure you get about 200 watt hours per Kg. You need about 2KW hours to launch a 500 Kg glider to 2000 feet allowing for prop inefficiency. You might want another 6000 feet for a retrieve so 8 KW hours. While the cells may have 200 watt hours/kg you'll need to interconnect them, monitor each cell and at least make an attempt to isolate cell problems. This can drastically reduce the watt hours/kg. I once discussed this with some people at a commercial drone shop (they also flew R/C and used LiPos all the time and had a professional interest for their drones) and was told Tesla had 180 watt-hour cells in the original Roadster but when all the packaging and protection was added they were 108 watt - hours/kg. the cells you mention are about 10 watt - hours each so you need 800 of them. That is a lot of interconnects. What do you think is the probability of of a badly manufactured cell catching fire? What about 800 of them?

Mike

  #83  
Old September 13th 18, 11:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Emir Sherbi
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Posts: 64
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

Mike,

For me is weird to fill the glider with 12l of explosive liquid behind my back that makes explosive fumes with a lot of electronics around.

You have risks all the time, even without a motor.




  #84  
Old September 14th 18, 07:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Borgelt[_2_]
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Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On Thursday, 13 September 2018 20:46:33 UTC+10, Emir Sherbi wrote:
Mike,

For me is weird to fill the glider with 12l of explosive liquid behind my back that makes explosive fumes with a lot of electronics around.

You have risks all the time, even without a motor.


Yeah, but a Halon extinguisher has a fighting chance of putting out a jet A-1 fire. Try putting out a lithium battery fire. The youtube clips of lithium battery fires are quite entertaining.
There's no reason to have explosive fumes from fuel in the glider with proper tank venting and drains. The piston engine motorglider fires that I know of have been mainly caused by problems with the fuel plumbing. Using crummy automotive fuel fittings instead of AN aero types. In the last few years the German glider industry has been a little better but the Quintus engine I fixed recently still had a lot of automotive type hose clamps in the fuel system which is interesting as the fuel injected system runs at 3 bar. A leak could easily ruin your whole day, particularly with the proximity of the hot exhaust not far away.
I have nothing against electric gliders, the motors controllers, props etc are fine but the batteries are a problem, which is the conclusion I came to in 2008. Ten years on I still haven't seen anything to change that conclusion.
BTW didn't the Siemens test electric airplane (an Extra 300) crash recently, killing the pilots? The report I read said that it caught fire in the air..
We had an Antares in Australia catch fire a few years ago while parked in a hangar at Narromine. Seems there was a short between a point on the circuit board of the 300 volt to 12 volt converter and large hole got burned in the aluminum cover until the arc was no longer able to bridge the gap. Fortunately nothing else caught fire.
As I said, experiment away. If nobody does it, progress will not be made.

Mike

  #85  
Old September 14th 18, 05:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 11:21:01 PM UTC-7, Mike Borgelt wrote:
On Thursday, 13 September 2018 20:46:33 UTC+10, Emir Sherbi wrote:
Mike,

For me is weird to fill the glider with 12l of explosive liquid behind my back that makes explosive fumes with a lot of electronics around.

You have risks all the time, even without a motor.


Yeah, but a Halon extinguisher has a fighting chance of putting out a jet A-1 fire. Try putting out a lithium battery fire. The youtube clips of lithium battery fires are quite entertaining.
There's no reason to have explosive fumes from fuel in the glider with proper tank venting and drains. The piston engine motorglider fires that I know of have been mainly caused by problems with the fuel plumbing. Using crummy automotive fuel fittings instead of AN aero types. In the last few years the German glider industry has been a little better but the Quintus engine I fixed recently still had a lot of automotive type hose clamps in the fuel system which is interesting as the fuel injected system runs at 3 bar. A leak could easily ruin your whole day, particularly with the proximity of the hot exhaust not far away.
I have nothing against electric gliders, the motors controllers, props etc are fine but the batteries are a problem, which is the conclusion I came to in 2008. Ten years on I still haven't seen anything to change that conclusion.
BTW didn't the Siemens test electric airplane (an Extra 300) crash recently, killing the pilots? The report I read said that it caught fire in the air.
We had an Antares in Australia catch fire a few years ago while parked in a hangar at Narromine. Seems there was a short between a point on the circuit board of the 300 volt to 12 volt converter and large hole got burned in the aluminum cover until the arc was no longer able to bridge the gap. Fortunately nothing else caught fire.
As I said, experiment away. If nobody does it, progress will not be made.

Mike


The production of Halon ceased January 1, 1994, at least in the States.
  #86  
Old September 14th 18, 05:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.


The production of Halon ceased January 1, 1994, at least in the States.


There a substitutes like Halotron that work well to put out turbine fires.
  #87  
Old September 14th 18, 06:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
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Posts: 624
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 9:58:34 AM UTC-7, wrote:

The production of Halon ceased January 1, 1994, at least in the States.


There a substitutes like Halotron that work well to put out turbine fires.


I've bought and had installed one of these systems since then. It is in ASH26E #26012.
Features list includes: MIL-SPEC quality Halon 1211 or 1301.
Available at Aircraft Spruce, but for horizontal mounting in gliders you need a dip tube similar to aerobatic fuel tanks. Spruce can't do that, Safecraft can.
Jim

https://safecraft.com/aviation/

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/categ...re_yspace.html

  #88  
Old September 15th 18, 03:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

Gotta love aircraft pricing...

On 9/14/2018 11:33 AM, JS wrote:
On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 9:58:34 AM UTC-7, wrote:
The production of Halon ceased January 1, 1994, at least in the States.

There a substitutes like Halotron that work well to put out turbine fires.

I've bought and had installed one of these systems since then. It is in ASH26E #26012.
Features list includes: MIL-SPEC quality Halon 1211 or 1301.
Available at Aircraft Spruce, but for horizontal mounting in gliders you need a dip tube similar to aerobatic fuel tanks. Spruce can't do that, Safecraft can.
Jim

https://safecraft.com/aviation/

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/categ...re_yspace.html


--
Dan, 5J
  #89  
Old September 16th 18, 03:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Borgelt[_2_]
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Posts: 29
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.



The production of Halon ceased January 1, 1994, at least in the States.


Yes but it gets recovered from old equipment and can be used in fire extinguishers in certain applications.

I read a great article once about how the USAF looked into substitutes and there weren't any that did not require twice as much bulk and/or weight for same effect.

Mike



  #90  
Old September 17th 18, 02:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 21
Default Js3 jet catastrophic failure.

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 9:26:48 PM UTC-5, Mike Borgelt wrote:

The production of Halon ceased January 1, 1994, at least in the States.


Yes but it gets recovered from old equipment and can be used in fire extinguishers in certain applications.

I read a great article once about how the USAF looked into substitutes and there weren't any that did not require twice as much bulk and/or weight for same effect.

Mike


Last Friday I went out for a day of soaring. During my assembly I started both turbines for a pre-flight test. Both turbines started and had normal run ups. After tow out I was ready for takeoff. Once again the turbines started without any issues, during my takeoff roll one of the engines catastrophically failed. The rear turbine wheel exploded and shrapnel was radiated thru the exhaust cone onto my removable turtleneck. The damage to the aircraft was primarily cosmetic but the turbine is totaled.
 




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