Gasohol

Hampton Airport in SE New Hampshire sells straight mogas with no
additives. They buy it by the tankload at the terminal in Portland ME
before the bad stuff goes in.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution
terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge
tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc...
The driver pulls up with his tanker... Keys in who the gas is for
Shell, Marathon, ETC.and what the octane rating is and the computer
selects the appropriate base stock of gasoline and mixes in the proper
additives and dyes as it pumps the load to his tanker, including the
alcohol... We are being hosed by the oil companies, in cahoots with
the government, in more ways than just price...

This is straight from the tanker driver's mouth... He spent a good ten
minutes showing me his work sheets, computer instruction sheet, mixing
receipt for his load, and gas analysis sheet including percent of
water, etc. that he leaves a copy of with the station after
delivery...

denny

Denny wrote:
Hampton Airport in SE New Hampshire sells straight mogas with no
additives. They buy it by the tankload at the terminal in Portland ME
before the bad stuff goes in.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford


The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution
terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge
tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc...
The driver pulls up with his tanker... Keys in who the gas is for
Shell, Marathon, ETC.and what the octane rating is and the computer
selects the appropriate base stock of gasoline and mixes in the proper
additives and dyes as it pumps the load to his tanker, including the
alcohol... We are being hosed by the oil companies, in cahoots with
the government, in more ways than just price...

It is true that all oil companies fuel is essentially the same,
and has been true for a long time. Explain how the government is
somewhow in "cahoots" with the oil companies? Federal, state and
local governments together make more on a gallon of gas than the
oil companies do.

"ktbr" wrote in message
...
Denny wrote:
Hampton Airport in SE New Hampshire sells straight mogas with no
additives. They buy it by the tankload at the terminal in Portland ME
before the bad stuff goes in.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford


The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution
terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge
tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc...
The driver pulls up with his tanker... Keys in who the gas is for
Shell, Marathon, ETC.and what the octane rating is and the computer
selects the appropriate base stock of gasoline and mixes in the proper
additives and dyes as it pumps the load to his tanker, including the
alcohol... We are being hosed by the oil companies, in cahoots with
the government, in more ways than just price...

It is true that all oil companies fuel is essentially the same,
and has been true for a long time. Explain how the government is
somewhow in "cahoots" with the oil companies? Federal, state and
local governments together make more on a gallon of gas than the
oil companies do.

http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg

"Matt Barrow" wrote:
http://www.redplanetcartoons.com/wor...7gasprices.jpg

It varies of course with location, but for a gallon of branded gas sold
in California the average values appear to be[1]:

$3.44 Retail price per gallon.
$0.62 Taxes (18%)
$1.61 Crude oil cost (47%)

Profit margins vary a lot by company and over time, but a mid-term (not
long term) average of ~8% seems a useful number.[2] Though Exxon managed
to get nearly 11% last year.[3] So for the above $3.44 gallon of gas,
and if they were still getting 11%, their profit would have been:

$0.38 Oil company profit.

So the $0.09 in the cartoon may be the gas station owner's EBITDA per
gallon.

The industries that really have high profit margins are banking, drugs,
and software. People rarely complain about price gouging from Microsoft
or other software companies, but their profit margins are quite large
relative to other industries. And some people wonder why I'm still in
the software business. ;-)

[1] http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/margins/index.html
[2] http://www.gravmag.com/oil.html
[3] http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/01/news...xxon/index.htm

ktbr writes:

The joke on us all is that gas pumped to your local distribution
terminal has no alcohol in it... At the distribution terminal are huge
tanks of gas, and smaller tnaks of alcohol, dye, additives, etc...
.....


It is true that all oil companies fuel is essentially the same,
and has been true for a long time.


Anyone here recall Sohio with Winter-Ice Guard?

A) Yes, pipeline carry fuel that is traded widely between companies.
Many times, groups of competitors jointly own the pipeline company.
Inland Corp == Sun, Union, Shell & BP

[There are large efficiencies of scale on same; it costs almost as
much to run a 6" dia pipeline as an 18" one.]

Exception was that no one would take low-end Sunoco as it was lower
octane than regular. [Sun mixed a % of the low end and high octane
right at the pump.]

B) Yes, all the additives are injected at the marketing terminal;
aka where the trucks are loaded. So yes, you should be able to
buy un-altered gas, with the right connections...


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Want to emphesize that ALL gasoline has some water in it. It leaves
the refinery with some non-zero amount. It's stored in floating roof
tanks [1] that will let some in. It's in a truck in the rain... it's
there.

The question is getting rid of same.

We all know how -- let it sit quietly and it shall settle out. Then
open the bottom drain and watch. That might be under your wing, or
on a tank or inbetween...



[1] Gas does not go kabboom; gas vapor does. So it's stored not in
tanks as much as 4 million gallon cylinders with closed bottoms.

On top of the gas there's a big heavy floating roof that has a gasket
all the way around the edge. It floats directly atop the gas; ergo
no vapor space.

Then there's a sliding ladder deal so the pipeline operator can
climb up over the cylinder lip and back down onto the roof.

BUT, with the tank half full; there's a 2 million gallon trap atop
the roof to collect rainwater and snow; some of which leaks past
that gasket. Most is SUPPOSED to go through an articulated downspout
gadget INSIDE the tank and out the side at the bottom; but that's
only when the temperature is well above freezing...and they leak
a little too...

This was obvious to many pilots & few ground-dwellers, but now many
of the tanks also have a cap on top to keep some of the rain and
snow out. I was looking for a GoogleMap photo and all the ones I
worked on are now capped.



--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Given the issue with alcohol, and the fact it is injected at the
last stage - truck loading -- why aren't the STA owners such as EAA
running campaigns to set up procedures for FBO's to procure untainted
autogas?

I can see the average truck loading terminal saying "we can't do that"
until they get a memo saying that they can...



--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Well, lemmee give ya a very simple example of cahoots...

First picture the double bottom fuel tanker... He goes to the terminal
and loads premium gas for Chevron in the front tanker and premium gas
for Shell in the back tanker... The computer adds the dyes,
carcinogenic additives, and alcohol, and off he goes... Each company
runs advertising on how its premium is better than anyone elses
premium because of the companies expertise and care in every step of
the production process - and how they search the world for the best
crude - and oh yes, they are GREEN to boot...

Your gas actually comes from the same generic tank fed off a generic
pipeline from a generic refinery, that every branded and unbranded
gas station in the area buys from, each putting their own name on
it...
The FTC is happy with this...
The Atty General of the Hew Hess of Hey is happy with this...
The states Atty General's are happy with this...

Now picture Chivas Regal and Jack Daniels - and it comes to light
Woodward and Bernstein strike again that they are not actually
fermenting and distilling their own booze but are buying white
lightning from an industrial alcohol distillery in Trinidad and
Tobaggo same one that supplies it for gasohol and shipping it here
in converted petroleum tankers, whereupon they each runit through
charcoal, add coloring and flavoring, and each bottle it under their
own label...
The FTC and the combined Atty Generals will be good with that?
No way, mon! There will be executives in hand cuffs testifying in
front of Congress...
But if it is big oil? - well golly gee it's just a business decision
wink, wink, nudge...

denny - who is old enough to see the wool over his eyes

"Denny" wrote in message ps.com...
Well, lemmee give ya a very simple example of cahoots...

First picture the double bottom fuel tanker... He goes to the terminal
and loads premium gas for Chevron in the front tanker and premium gas
for Shell in the back tanker... The computer adds the dyes,
carcinogenic additives, and alcohol, and off he goes... Each company
runs advertising on how its premium is better than anyone elses
premium because of the companies expertise and care in every step of
the production process - and how they search the world for the best
crude - and oh yes, they are GREEN to boot...

Your gas actually comes from the same generic tank fed off a generic
pipeline from a generic refinery, that every branded and unbranded
gas station in the area buys from, each putting their own name on
it...
The FTC is happy with this...
The Atty General of the Hew Hess of Hey is happy with this...
The states Atty General's are happy with this...

Now picture Chivas Regal and Jack Daniels - and it comes to light
Woodward and Bernstein strike again that they are not actually
fermenting and distilling their own booze but are buying white
lightning from an industrial alcohol distillery in Trinidad and
Tobaggo same one that supplies it for gasohol and shipping it here
in converted petroleum tankers, whereupon they each runit through
charcoal, add coloring and flavoring, and each bottle it under their
own label...
The FTC and the combined Atty Generals will be good with that?
No way, mon! There will be executives in hand cuffs testifying in
front of Congress...
But if it is big oil? - well golly gee it's just a business decision
wink, wink, nudge...

denny - who is old enough to see the wool over his eyes


Hit my thought right on the head! This crap is absolutely amazing. Hard to believe that there is any way this stuff is
called 'gasoline.' Interesting what definitions pop up when you do a web search for 'gasoline definition'. I see the
hydrocarbon bit by most, but there are now 'states' changing the definition to include the gasohol definition also...

sheeze.....

On Mon, 04 Jun 2007 04:43:05 -0700, Denny wrote:

denny - who is old enough to see the wool over his eyes\\

Denny, you won't see much with the wool over your eyes. For example,
you evidently don't see the difference between gasoline (in economic
terms, a commodity) and whiskey (a franchise).

Do you drink much gasoline in the course of a week?

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
forthcoming from HarperCollins www.flyingtigersbook.com