Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC

JD writes:

MS, don't let post like this bother you.

Not to worry; I am refractory to personal attacks.

ANY interest in aviation is good.

I agree.

Real pilots are in general one of the most POLITE bunch of people
you'd ever want to meet and hang out with.

Why are so many of the ones accessing USENET so rude, then? Or
perhaps they are not actually pilots (?).

A lot of GA pilots like to hang out at the local airports
and do nothing but "hanger flying", i.e. sit around and talk about
aviation (and other topics).

Is that anything like ... simulation?

Try it sometime, and join a local chapter of the EAA (experimental
aircraft association). You'll learn a lot more from talking to folks
than from reading posts like Mad's.

I live in Europe, so I don't really have those options. I try to read
things on paper and online, and I fly in simulation, and I fly in
network simulation (VATSIM) to practice ATC and to have some level of
unpredictability in the simulation.

--
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Mxsmanic,

Why are so many of the ones accessing USENET so rude, then?


You need to recalibrate your rudeness sensor to include yourself. It
will help. I guarantee.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
I live in Europe, so I don't really have those options. I try to read
things on paper and online, and I fly in simulation, and I fly in
network simulation (VATSIM) to practice ATC and to have some level of
unpredictability in the simulation.

Where in Europe do you live? Depending where you are, I could put you in
contact with local experimental aircraft associations and/or simmers who are
well versed in simulated flying.


Gus
EGYC

John Theune writes:

Are you flying IFR?

Yes. I've filed a SID, a route, and a STAR, and programmed this into
the FMC as well. The FMC apparently decides when to start the descent
from cruise (if you don't override it), presumably based on the
altitude restrictions it has to respect for the arrival procedure.

if so then ATC will tell you what altitude to be at.
Resume own navigation refers to routing not altitude.

Ah ... is there another phrase that also means altitude is at my
discretion, or is altitude always under the control of ATC? The fact
that the FMC provides for its own descent schedule implies that there
must be situations in IFR where I'm allowed to climb or descend at my
discretion (?).

--
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Mxsmanic,

The fact
that the FMC provides for its own descent schedule implies that there
must be situations in IFR where I'm allowed to climb or descend at my
discretion


No. That fact implies that the simulation does not simulate real life
well in this respect. You wanted an example, you got one all by
yourself.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert writes:

That fact implies that the simulation does not simulate real life
well in this respect.

What part of the FMC or ATC simulation is incorrect?

--
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In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:
if so then ATC will tell you what altitude to be at.
Resume own navigation refers to routing not altitude.

Ah ... is there another phrase that also means altitude is at my
discretion, or is altitude always under the control of ATC? The fact
that the FMC provides for its own descent schedule implies that there
must be situations in IFR where I'm allowed to climb or descend at my
discretion (?).

If your FMC wants to descend, ask ATC for a descent. If you're going to
be descending with multiple segments of different descent rates, ask ATC
for "descent at pilots discretion".

Real world IFR flying is about coordinating your actions with those of all
the other planes out there, not flying along fat, dumb and happy doing
whatever you feel like. That's the whole point of ATC - to make sure you
don't hit what you can't see. ATC's second priority is to make sure the
system runs smoothly, so your actions don't interfere with somebody else
and somebody else's actions don't interfere with you.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"I love the smell of burning components in the morning.
Smells like victory." (The ******* Operator From Hell)

Paul Tomblin writes:

If your FMC wants to descend, ask ATC for a descent. If you're going to
be descending with multiple segments of different descent rates, ask ATC
for "descent at pilots discretion".

OK, thanks. Is that the procedure followed by pilots in the real
world as well?

Real world IFR flying is about coordinating your actions with those of all
the other planes out there, not flying along fat, dumb and happy doing
whatever you feel like.

Yes. That's why I'm trying to find out what the rules are.

That's the whole point of ATC - to make sure you
don't hit what you can't see. ATC's second priority is to make sure the
system runs smoothly, so your actions don't interfere with somebody else
and somebody else's actions don't interfere with you.

Yes. I try to be cooperative with ATC.

--
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In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:
Paul Tomblin writes:

If your FMC wants to descend, ask ATC for a descent. If you're going to
be descending with multiple segments of different descent rates, ask ATC
for "descent at pilots discretion".

OK, thanks. Is that the procedure followed by pilots in the real
world as well?

I live and fly in the real world, so I can only talk about the real world.
My "real world" is part 91 IFR below the oxygen altitudes, however, so
some of what I say isn't applicablle to part 121 in class A airspace.

Another "trick" is to ask for a cruise clearance, which also allows you to
manage your own descent profile. However in my chunk of the real world,
I've never seen it used or needed it.

I fly with a Garmin 296 handheld GPS. In my experience, nearly always
just around the same time it says I need to start my descent if I want to
descend at 500fpm to my destination, ATC clears me down to a lower
altitude without being asked.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
A male pilot is a confused soul who talks about women when he's flying,
and about flying when he's with a woman.

"John Theune" wrote

Are you flying IFR? if so then ATC will tell you what altitude to be at.
Resume own navigation refers to routing not altitude. VFR is a different
set of rules.

He is flying a simulator "game," so he isn't really flying anything, and has
no consequences to whatever he does.

Get it?
--
Jim in NC