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300lb (130kg) pilot



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 8th 15, 03:47 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

First, I sincerely want to thank you all for all the insightful inputs.

I understand that as always, weight can be an issue and there are many things that can motivate us to stay fit. I'm actually 287 as of now, I've been at 210 not too long ago and my medical certificate reads 308lb. Things do change, and I'd like to keep flying regardless of my weight.

Even not knowing a darn thing about gliders, I knew that my 'performance' requirements and budget were probably way off. My budget is quite similar to that number though. I could stretch it slightly if interesting options weren't too far from that.

Bumper, the issue is burning that precious gas money at 8-14gph and the overall associated maintenance costs with an engine. I assume gliders are way more affordable in the long run compared to airplanes when you factor in maintenance and inspection costs. Airplane ownership is out for me, for now.

Bruce, awesome information. I'm glad you clarified the grand mistery of the 242lb seat restriction.
One of my main concerns was that by exceeding this restriction, the seat could possibly detach from the fuselage if load factor limits were exceeded. This makes much more sense now.
I understand the correlation between maximum gross and load factor limit tradeoffs.

Correct if I'm wrong folks, but assuming C&G is within limits and assuming I can reasonably fit in the bird, soloing in a two seater shouldn't be an issue as they'd likely have a minimum usefull load of at least 300lb.

Presuming I'm correct, I have two additional questions.

1) What's the likelihood of getting a dual sailplane within C&G limits, me being the sole occupant (300lb !) ?

2) Suggestions of sailplanes with roomy cockpits (single or dual) , minimum +5/-3 G (I find it reassuring), atleast 300lb of useful load, and preferably widely available. I'm curious enough to check all the birds that could possibly accomodate me within various price ranges. Budget is 20 or so though.



  #12  
Old March 8th 15, 04:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

On Sunday, March 8, 2015 at 3:47:43 PM UTC+13, wrote:
Correct if I'm wrong folks, but assuming C&G is within limits and assuming I can reasonably fit in the bird, soloing in a two seater shouldn't be an issue as they'd likely have a minimum usefull load of at least 300lb.


Yes. You'd be within all placarded limits except the seatbelt one. Which, really, is up to you if it's your own glider. The only situation in which is going to matter is if you crash so violently that you're probably going to have much bigger problems anyway.


Presuming I'm correct, I have two additional questions.

1) What's the likelihood of getting a dual sailplane within C&G limits, me being the sole occupant (300lb !) ?


On the two seat gliders I fly (DG1000), the rear seat pilot contributes 40% as much moment arm as the front seat pilot.

So if you don't have a 110 kg person in the back seat then that's 44 kg extra you can put in the front seat while staying at the same C of G.


2) Suggestions of sailplanes with roomy cockpits (single or dual) , minimum +5/-3 G (I find it reassuring), atleast 300lb of useful load, and preferably widely available. I'm curious enough to check all the birds that could possibly accomodate me within various price ranges. Budget is 20 or so though.


I don't know what you'd get for $20k. There *might* be Grob Twin Astir around for that price by now. Though twins keep their value as they are cash cows for clubs/commercial operators. We sold two of them, both made in 1978, about 8 years ago (when we got the two new DG1000s) for $40k and $45k.
  #13  
Old March 8th 15, 05:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

Grob 103s are still about $40-$45K in value. Especially since all of the L-13s were grounded.
I'll run some numbers, but I'm sure 300# in the front seat would exceed the forward CG limit. No opportunity to add ballast at the tail like the DG1000.
Same with a K-21.
We only have 400# useful load, and no 100# instructor to train you.
I've seen some 240 pounders fill up the front seat of a Grob 103, I can't imagine how a 6 foot 3, 300 pounder would fit.

BillT
  #14  
Old March 8th 15, 01:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nigel Pocock[_2_]
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

Are there any side by side 2 seaters suitable? that would help with the
cofG problem but not the all up weight. The only ones I can think of are
the T21 (sedburgh), T 53 (capstan), Calif, and if you want something with a
smelly engine Stemme.

  #15  
Old March 8th 15, 10:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

Imagine sitting in airline seats, side by side with a 6-3 300# seat mate, and they will want the armrest up because it digs in to him.
No choice to hang into the aisle, there is no aisle, it's the side of the fuselage.
Which means he's going to take part of your seat. Many side by side seating has controls between the seats. It's just not going to work.
He will not fit in a 2-33, he will bust out the plastic side pieces and jam the rear seat rudder pedals.

I've had large potential students visit and the discussion turns to weight. I don't have a glider you will fit in. These are max rated at 242#.
But we are not flying so go ahead in get in. With a little guidance they finally fit into the seat of the Grob 103 and realize they have no room to move and cannot get full deflection of the control stick.

BillT
  #16  
Old March 9th 15, 12:16 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot



Correct if I'm wrong folks, but assuming C&G is within limits and assuming I can reasonably fit in the bird, soloing in a two seater shouldn't be an issue as they'd likely have a minimum useful load of at least 300lb.


You also have to get yourself into and (even harder) OUT of the glider. This can be a problem for people that are well under the placarded weight limit. Many pilots bring one knee up to their chests, then push up with one leg and two arms. If you're big and the console is fixed, then your knee will probably not clear the bottom edge of the console. Without the leg up, you'd have to use your arms. Might be possible if you're a body builder. How many 'dips' can you do?




  #17  
Old March 9th 15, 12:38 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

On Sun, 08 Mar 2015 16:16:14 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

You also have to get yourself into and (even harder) OUT of the glider.
This can be a problem for people that are well under the placarded
weight limit. Many pilots bring one knee up to their chests, then push
up with one leg and two arms. If you're big and the console is fixed,
then your knee will probably not clear the bottom edge of the console.
Without the leg up, you'd have to use your arms. Might be possible if
you're a body builder. How many 'dips' can you do?

Well put. I'm not particularly strong, but find that if I can put my
hands on the cockpit rim and push myself and the 5kg parachute I'm
wearing straight up high enough to get my legs out from under the panel
over the rim, then getting out is easy.

That works fine for me in my Libelle, the club's SZD Juniors, Puchacz,
ASK-21s and G103, but getting out of a Duo Discus, which has a relatively
higher cockpit rim relative to the seat, is a lot harder.

Bottom line: if you can't do at least ten push-ups you may find you'll
struggle getting out of the cockpit, and later, when you are qualified
and want to buy a glider, you may have problems rigging your new toy:
wings are heavier than you may think.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #18  
Old March 9th 15, 01:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:16:15 PM UTC+13, son_of_flubber wrote:

Correct if I'm wrong folks, but assuming C&G is within limits and assuming I can reasonably fit in the bird, soloing in a two seater shouldn't be an issue as they'd likely have a minimum useful load of at least 300lb.


You also have to get yourself into and (even harder) OUT of the glider. This can be a problem for people that are well under the placarded weight limit. Many pilots bring one knee up to their chests, then push up with one leg and two arms. If you're big and the console is fixed, then your knee will probably not clear the bottom edge of the console. Without the leg up, you'd have to use your arms. Might be possible if you're a body builder. How many 'dips' can you do?


I've never been 300 lb, but I've been 285. And many times done 6 or 8 flights with students in an afternoon. I've never had any problem getting in or out of gliders, whether it be the back seat of the DG1000 or a PW5 or Libelle. And I certainly don't do push-ups!

I wouldn't want to do it under a 2 or 3 G loading, but on the ground? Not a problem.

And for Bill T, the only glider I've even flown where I couldn't get full control deflection was ailerons on the ASK13. I understand that's not uncommon.
  #19  
Old March 9th 15, 02:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

Bruce, I've had tall pilots in the 2-33. Their knees are higher, they cannot get full aileron deflection without lifting a foot off the rudder pedal so they can put the stick under their knee. I'm 210# and the back stick will touch the seat belt buckle in the back seat. I can only imagine if the 300# can even sit into the front seat bucket, that the stick cannot be pulled full back.
BillT
  #20  
Old March 9th 15, 03:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default 300lb (130kg) pilot

On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 2:39:39 PM UTC+13, Bill T wrote:
Bruce, I've had tall pilots in the 2-33. Their knees are higher, they cannot get full aileron deflection without lifting a foot off the rudder pedal so they can put the stick under their knee. I'm 210# and the back stick will touch the seat belt buckle in the back seat. I can only imagine if the 300# can even sit into the front seat bucket, that the stick cannot be pulled full back.
BillT


Perhaps fortunately, I have never had the pleasure of flying, or even being in proximity to, a 2-33. I'm pretty sure there have never been any in this country, and back when I started in gliding everyone was training in either Blanik or Ka7/ASK13, all of which I've flown multiple times over the years. Now virtually everyone is training students in glass (my club has been for over 20 years, Grobs then DGs).
 




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