V-22 Prop Configuration, 3-vs-4 blades

Don,

NONE of those aircraft or helos you mentioned are TRANSITIONAL craft.
The V-22 has a lousy test record that the Marines falsified heavily to
pass the a/c through and it IS a deathtrap in just "being" a
transitional craft.
Transitioning is like being a sitting duck ASKING to be hit in a highly
vunerable moment, far worse than a helo set-down.
I'm not the only person who has voiced this and want the V-22
cancelled.
As for advancements in aviation, this is nothing new. The Germans had
TWO transitional a/c designs during WW2 (from Focke-Achgelis and
Weserflug). Neither were built. The Germans DID, however, have the
Me-321 and 323 Gigant transports- the C-5s of the day able to lift
artillery, tanks, and 100 men and it flew... but no one wanted to be
inside the lumbering monster that was easy prey for Spits in the Med,
despite 10 MG defense!
There are a lot of special forces and other soldiers that don't want to
climb into the V-22 for the same reasons- the a/c is a deathtrap.
BTW, FYI, many believe that the XF-23 was better than the XF-22 but
that the USAF is biased towards Lockheed products- same as Heinkel vs
Messerschmitt. Now its Northrop vs Lockheed Martin- Whatever!
I'm for axing both these aircraft but the am in favor of the F-35 and a
reasonable new air superiority fighter- not some mess that costs the
taxpayer almost $175 million per copy when a new Su-47 and the
Euro-craft cost around $75-80 mil each. Hell, you COULD buy Flankers
for around $50-60 mil each!
And the F/A-22 performance claims are just that-company and USAF
claims. They should have just continued work on the F-16XL and further
F-15 development. The F/A-22 isn't justified at all. It went from F-22
to F/A-22 to naval F/A-22 and now a proposed F/B-22!!!
Gimme a ****ing break... that turkey isn't selling. Axe it!!!

Rob

Rob Arndt wrote:
Don,

NONE of those aircraft or helos you mentioned are TRANSITIONAL craft.
The V-22 has a lousy test record that the Marines falsified heavily to
pass the a/c through and it IS a deathtrap in just "being" a
transitional craft.
Transitioning is like being a sitting duck ASKING to be hit in a highly
vunerable moment, far worse than a helo set-down.
I'm not the only person who has voiced this and want the V-22
cancelled.
As for advancements in aviation, this is nothing new. The Germans had
TWO transitional a/c designs during WW2 (from Focke-Achgelis and
Weserflug). Neither were built. The Germans DID, however, have the
Me-321 and 323 Gigant transports- the C-5s of the day able to lift
artillery, tanks, and 100 men and it flew... but no one wanted to be
inside the lumbering monster that was easy prey for Spits in the Med,
despite 10 MG defense!
There are a lot of special forces and other soldiers that don't want to
climb into the V-22 for the same reasons- the a/c is a deathtrap.
BTW, FYI, many believe that the XF-23 was better than the XF-22 but
that the USAF is biased towards Lockheed products- same as Heinkel vs
Messerschmitt. Now its Northrop vs Lockheed Martin- Whatever!
I'm for axing both these aircraft but the am in favor of the F-35 and a
reasonable new air superiority fighter- not some mess that costs the
taxpayer almost $175 million per copy when a new Su-47 and the
Euro-craft cost around $75-80 mil each. Hell, you COULD buy Flankers
for around $50-60 mil each!
And the F/A-22 performance claims are just that-company and USAF
claims. They should have just continued work on the F-16XL and further
F-15 development. The F/A-22 isn't justified at all. It went from F-22
to F/A-22 to naval F/A-22 and now a proposed F/B-22!!!
Gimme a ****ing break... that turkey isn't selling. Axe it!!!

Rob


My point is your opinions on tactics, strategy, individual equipment,
weapons, weapons systems, utility of aircraft etc as posted here over
the years have been way off base and are about as realistic as your
claim Germany defeated a U.S. expeditionary force in Antarctica after
the war. Something about a secret Nazi underground U-boat base in
Antarctica.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Steve Hix wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:


Bob Moore wrote:


Reed Judd-Dyer wrote


How does more blades equal less efficiency?

Those of us that flew rubber band powered contest model
aircraft way back ('40s-'50s) KNOW that the most efficient
propellor has only ONE blade...and a counterweight on the
other side. :-)

Bob Moore

A Helo with one blade would have to be the most uncomfortable ride,
until after a minute or so, when it had shook itself to pieces.


quite a bit less than a minute...

The single-blade prop with counterweight actually worked pretty well in
testing.
AND if you look at the model planes that are used in the International
U control speed contests, each has only one wing with fuel inside,
powered by an engine with prop of one blade and counterweight, faster
it goes more Cf on fuel in wing to input to engine, which has funnel
type air inlet to carb. Really screams, and speeds of over 230 klm
hour running in a 33meter radius circle about a heavy pivot in the
center.
Year I saw it at Westover, Mass the Aussie team won it by a healthy
margin.. more than 3% faster than old record..

Rather than follow the advice of Henry Jones Sr., Dan couldn't just let
news:qbTWf.2383$IG.2210@dukeread01 on 30 Mar 2006 go.

Rob Arndt wrote:
Best configuration for the V-22, you ask? In combat, a heap of
burning wreckage or in peace time... a cancelled project piece of
scrap metal. Transitional a/c are inherently dangerous no matter
what, and if the primitive Iraqis can down an Apache how much more
vunerable is the tilt-rotor Osprey... or rather "Easy Prey"?

Imagine an Osprey loaded with troops as it transitions to take off or
land in Iraq. One RPG or heavy MG fire to the rotor system and the US
will be scraping the remains of its troops out of the dirt and sand
with shovels.

Why doesn't someone cancel this flying cemetery already? Like the
F/A-22 seems the number "22" in US inventory= disaster. The Craptor
and Easy Prey need the axe. Cancelling the Craptor will save money
while cancelling Easy Prey will save lives.

Rob

This is from the fool who thinks Japan needs ICBMs, nuclear powered
aircraft carriers and nuclear powered submarines to protect itself
from China and North Korea. Then again he also believes a 34 pound
weapon is an excellent E&E choice for downed air crews, the Earth is
hollow, there's a secret still operational Nazi underground U-boat
base in Antarctica.....etc.

Delurking.....and this has to be one I do it with....sheesh.

I usually just read because the activity in this group seems more
oriented to air crew than ground crew.

My history - 9 years USMC - former Sergeant of Marines - OV-10D/D+ FLIR
tech - also A-6E IR portion of the TRAM and a squidge of F/A-18 IRDS.

While there are some rather foolish criticisms regarding aircraft
selection and policy, there are some sound ones as well.

When the V-22 program first started going through initial trials, there
were some legitimate, negative reactions to its catastrophic lack of air
worthiness. Additionally, I read several pieces about how the Marine
Corps didn't really want/need the V-22 early on. The general line of
reasoning was that the Corps could break out the old patterns and build 5
to 10 CH-46 helicopters for the price of one V-22. The V-22 also
compared poorly when it came to maintenance hours per flight hour.

Yet the V-22 program was impossible to kill because the manufacturer(s)
had carefully placed enough work in as many congressional districts as
possible. Thus it was impossible to vote against the V-22 without voting
against jobs for the folks at home.

Of course we are now much further down the road and the money already
spent makes it harder to kill a program that fails to perform as
advertised. I'm sure the Corps has bought into the program if for no
other reason than swallowing is an easier process than regurgitation.

IMO, the Osprey was deployed well before prudence should dictate. The
program doesn't have a few bugs to figure out (something every program
has). It has one large bug in the primary mechanism that is supposed to
give the Osprey unique capabilities.

--
Regards,
Dann
Blogging at: http://www.modempool.com/nucleardann/blogspace/blog.htm

A big enough hammer can usually fix anything.