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Required hold?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 9th 04, 10:52 PM
Nicholas Kliewer
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Default Required hold?

In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE? Does it
depend which IAF I use?

Thanks !
  #2  
Old November 9th 04, 11:08 PM
Judah
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Yes, it depends on your IAF. If you start at RAINEE, the Procedure Turn is
required. If you start at OWANY or OWDIM no Procedure Turn is required (or
authorized) as indicated by the "NoPT" comment on the DME Arcs.



Nicholas Kliewer wrote in news:41913C0A.93B1F12
@spothotmail.com:

In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE? Does it
depend which IAF I use?

Thanks !


  #3  
Old November 9th 04, 11:08 PM
Ron Natalie
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Nicholas Kliewer wrote:
In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE? Does it
depend which IAF I use?

It depends on which IAF you use. The NoPT designation
on the DME arcs (IAF's OWDIM and OWAMY) applies to the hold in
lieu of the procedure turn (5-4-8 of the AIM). If you start
the approach at RANEE, then you have to enter the hold.

Really, you're considered to have done the turn once you've
entered, and crossed thed fix heading on the inbound course.
In that case, even coming in from the two arc IAF's, you
would just flyover RANEE anyhow even if the arcs weren't marked
NoPT. You don't need to go around the racetrack.

  #4  
Old November 9th 04, 11:14 PM
Dave Butler
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Nicholas Kliewer wrote:
In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE? Does it
depend which IAF I use?


Perhaps the question you intended to ask is: "am I required to do a procedure
turn at RAINEE?" A hold is never required there unless so instructed by ATC.

If you arrive by one of the transtions marked NoPT, or if you are given vectors
to the final approach course, no procedure turn is required.




  #5  
Old November 9th 04, 11:15 PM
Mitty
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On 11/9/04 3:52 PM, Nicholas Kliewer wrote the following:
In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE?


I'll stick my neck out in public.

If it is your IAF and you got there on your own/were not vectored there, then I
think you have to fly a lap in the hold because it is your PT.

Does it
depend which IAF I use?


Yes; From the two DME arcs: "NoPT"
  #6  
Old November 9th 04, 11:20 PM
Roy Smith
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In article ,
Nicholas Kliewer wrote:
In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE? Does it
depend which IAF I use?


I see three IAF's (OWANY, OWDIM, and RANEE). The first two are the
start of DME arcs, both of which are marked NoPT, so you don't fly a
PT if you start from either of those.

If you start the approach from RANEE you have to fly the PT, and the
PT is constrained to be a 1-minute holding pattern.

What I find odd about the procedure is that there's no hold charted
for the missed. The obvious answer is that you hold northeast of CLL
on the 027 radial, right turns, 1 minute legs, but it's conventional
to chart the holding pattern.
  #7  
Old November 9th 04, 11:42 PM
Stan Prevost
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If you arrive at RAINEE as the IAF, you must fly the hold-in-lieu course
reversal procedure. Only once around the hold is required. Additional
turns require ATC approval. If you fly either DME arc, you may not fly the
hold unless you obtain ATC clearance to do so. Each DME arc is marked NoPT.

"Nicholas Kliewer" wrote in message
...
In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE? Does it
depend which IAF I use?

Thanks !




  #8  
Old November 9th 04, 11:58 PM
zatatime
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On 9 Nov 2004 17:20:36 -0500, (Roy Smith) wrote:

What I find odd about the procedure is that there's no hold charted
for the missed



I found that strange as well. Not sure why that is.

z
  #9  
Old November 10th 04, 02:04 AM
Ron Rosenfeld
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On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:14:45 -0500, Dave Butler
wrote:

Perhaps the question you intended to ask is: "am I required to do a procedure
turn at RAINEE?" A hold is never required there unless so instructed by ATC.


Not so. If you arrive via the transition from CLL, a procedure turn is
required.



--ron
  #10  
Old November 10th 04, 04:51 AM
J Haggerty
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Although a missed approach holding pattern is normally charted, at the
time the procedure was built, the only requirement is that the missed
approach procedure allowed a pilot to continue in the enroute
environment. Using the VORTAC as the clearance limit accomplished this,
so a holding pattern was not required.
2000 would probably not provide the required 1000' obstacle clearance
for a holding pattern at CLL (based on the 1049' tower that appears to
be within any holding pattern that would be used there), the minimum
holding altitude is probably higher than 2000.

JPH

Roy Smith wrote:
In article ,
Nicholas Kliewer wrote:

In the following approach (VOR/DME or GPS-A),
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0411/06276VDGA.PDF
am I required to hold at RAINEE? Does it
depend which IAF I use?



I see three IAF's (OWANY, OWDIM, and RANEE). The first two are the
start of DME arcs, both of which are marked NoPT, so you don't fly a
PT if you start from either of those.

If you start the approach from RANEE you have to fly the PT, and the
PT is constrained to be a 1-minute holding pattern.

What I find odd about the procedure is that there's no hold charted
for the missed. The obvious answer is that you hold northeast of CLL
on the 027 radial, right turns, 1 minute legs, but it's conventional
to chart the holding pattern.

 




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