Short Wings Gliders

At 02:18 31 January 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote:

And, of course, the Ka-6 started with 14.40 meters.


Well, actually it started at 14.1 meters, then grew to 14.4 and on to 15.0
when the Standard Class was formed. And the wing later grew to 18 meters
for the ASK-18.

But in any form, the Ka-6 is a thing of beauty.

Steve Leonard
Ka-6CrPE
N958Z

Doug Hoffman wrote:
Jim Beckman wrote:
At 18:33 30 January 2009, toad wrote:.
So how does the math work out at your club ?

Include consideration of what it costs for you to use the field, and any
assistance you get from the government. Remember that in the US soaring
is purely a private endeavor, as are most art forms, with no subsidy
from
anybody.

We have a totally new government in the US now and they seem more than
willing to take over and control what once were private
decisions/endeavors.

Banking - yes, gliders - no.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
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"John Smith" wrote in I don't know a single
glider pilot who doesn't think that power flying
is just plain dull. Certainly useful, but nevertheless dull.


I don't think so! In fact, reflecting on this some, not sure I know of *any*
kind of flying that is "dull".

I was a power pilot 1st, then got my glider add-on in '97 (USA). Besides my
glider (ASH26E), I have a Husky A1-B that is an absolute blast to fly. I can
think of dozens of adjectives, none of which truly capture the joy and
exhilaration . . . and none of which comes anywhere near "dull".

If you knew me, make that 2.

bumper
Quiet Vent kit and MKIII "high tech" yaw string

Any sort of flying is fun, but soaring a glider cross-country is the most
fun you can have with your clothes on (IMHO).

What is not fun (i.e. dull) is sitting in a farmers field for hours while
you wait for someone to come and collect you after a land out. The problem
with short winged gliders is that they increase the possibility of not
being able to glide to the next source of lift, particularly in the UK
which has very patchy and inconsistent weather and often quite low
cloudbases.

It is actually aspect ratio (span/mean chord) rather than span that
defines a glider's performance. To achieve a high aspect ratio and a
sensible wing loading with a short span wing, you would have to make the
glider very light by using exotic and expensive materials. So the cost
savings may not be as great as you think....!

The glide angle of a K21 is actually about 34:1, which is about the best
you could expect from a 13.5m single seater.

Derek Copeland




At 00:30 31 January 2009, Dan Silent wrote:
At 23:45 30 January 2009, Andy wrote:

Dull is sitting in glider and staying within gliding range of the
launch point while your friends race.

Andy


THIS DULL IS FINE FOR ME, Mr Beenthere Donethat!
Particularly on a SWG (Short Wing Glider)
Or flying a magnificent 30:1 ASK21, sometime unable to get to
the next thermal, but having FUN!

At 21:45 30 January 2009, Derek Copeland wrote:

Many European clubs have a ballot for the club gliders with a limit on
the
time you can local soar, although cross-countries are unlimited. If you
don't *win* a glider in the ballot, and you don't mind waiting around
for a few hours you can usually get to fly later on in the day.

But if you want to fly XC, then flying later in the day doesn't do you
any good, really.

If you "lose" the ballot on one day, does that give you some sort of
priority for the next opportunity?

Jim Beckman

At 22:52 30 January 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:32:48 -0800 (PST), toad
wrote:

So how many pilots can show up and expect on a good day to get a 3-5
hour XC flight in ? 7 gliders doesn't seem like enough for 80 pilots.

Usually 2 gliders are reserved for XC, each pilot has got about 5 to 6
weekend days per season where the glider belongs to him.

Let's see if I can manage these numbers at all. 80 pilots,
five days, that's 400 days. Divide by 2 XC gliders, that's
200 days. Divide again by 2 days per weekend, that comes
to around 100 weekends per season. Where did you say all
this happens? And I don't suppose it ever rains?

Jim Beckman

At 22:59 30 January 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On 30 Jan 2009 21:15:03 GMT, Jim Beckman
wrote:

So that sounds like around 12 active pilots per glider, with unlimited
hours. How do you manage contention for the gliders on the weekends?

Restriction of flying time, depending on the number of pilots per
glider.

Which pretty much means no XC flying for those guys, right?

Jim Beckman

At 23:01 30 January 2009, Andreas Maurer wrote:

No help from government here either.
$11 per gallon of avgas doesn't help, too.

What does it cost you to use the field, or do you own it (in which case,
how much do you pay in taxes for the field)? Oh, and while we're at it,
just where is the field? I'd really like to understand how the Europeans
keep the costs so low - it would be nice if we could do the same here in
the Colonies.

Jim Beckman

On Jan 30, 5:30*pm, Dan Silent wrote:
THIS DULL IS FINE FOR ME, Mr Beenthere Donethat!

I'll rephrase what I wrote so my intention is more clear.

"Dull *for me* is sitting in a glider and staying within gliding range
of the launch point while *my* friends race."

I have no interest in judging whether other people's activities are
exciting or dull to them.

Andy

On Jan 30, 5:52*pm, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jan 2009 11:32:48 -0800 (PST), toad
wrote:

So how many pilots can show up and expect on a good day to get a 3-5
hour XC flight in ? *7 gliders doesn't seem like enough for 80 pilots.

Usually 2 gliders are reserved for XC, each pilot has got about 5 to 6
weekend days per season where the glider belongs to him.

There are also about 7 private gliders which are used by the serious
XC pilots.

Of course, if necessary, we could trade the ASW-27 into two ASW-20's
if we felt the need to increase our capacity - but on most days the
current capacity is more than sufficient.

This brings me back to your original perception about US pilots all
wanting to own their own glider. That perception might be skewed by
only hearing from the US pilots who post here, who are mostly "serious
XC pilots", or want to be. There are lots of US glider pilots flying
club equipment and having fun, but the time limits on flights during
weekends prevent them from doing much XC until they buy a glider
themselves or withing a partnership. Those club pilots spend less
time on RAS :-)

Todd Smith
3S