Airports that have oxygen

Darryl Ramm wrote on 2/23/2021 7:02 PM:
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?

Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
behind the pilot. From Mountain High.

You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Parowan Aero Services FBO used to have a Oxygen recompressor to top up those high PSI composite bottles, and a water bath to keep the bottle cool while doing that.

Unfortunately, the high pressure pump system stopped working several years ago, and Dave did
not have it repaired. I sort of recall him saying very few people had the high pressure
bottles, once the Germans stopped coming with their gliders.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Remember that there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between medical, welding and aviators oxygen. It is all produced by liquefaction and comes out of the same pipe. Once the use is defined, the price and availability changes by the liability incurred by the provider. Welding O2 is the cheapest, because of the fact that it is not "intended" for human consumption. "Aviators Breathing Oxygen" is often delivered at slightly higher pressure (2,200 psi vs. 1,800 or 2,000 psi) but costs more, as the "primary" cylinder must be emptied and purged by the supplier prior to refilling. A "Lot Number" must also be recorded for each primary cylinder refill. This does not apply to individual use cylinders like the ones we use in our gliders. Medical Oxygen costs the most (liability again), usually requires a Doctor's prescription and is rarely available for general non-medical use. Carrying a simple transfiller adapter can sometimes get you a refill at a welding shop, but the simplest method is to just carry a spare cylinder and transfiller so you can refill your glider cylinder. You should also have the specifications on your glider cylinder and delivery system, meaning you should know how long your supply will last at your maximum expected altitude and available pressure. For example, a 415 liter (14.7 cu ft) cylinder at 2216 psi will deliver 12.3 man/hours of oxygen at 15,000 ft MSL using a Mountain High EDS delivery system. The same system will provide approximately half the duration if it only has 1,100 psi. If you are using a standard straight cannula or face mask with constant flow, you only have 4.0 hours at 15,000 ft MSL. Know your equipment!

BTW, oxygen refills are available at Moriarty, NM through Sundance Aviation..

At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.

My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.

On a sunny day below 18,000, or in a heated cabin welding oxygen seems to be OK.

We offer oxygen fills in Nephi through the Utah Soaring Association. Event participants or affiliate members ($25) able to get fills for a fee ($20-30), limited membership ($175) includes unlimited fills.

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.

My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.

Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.

On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 8:01:58 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Darryl Ramm wrote on 2/23/2021 7:02 PM:
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 10:56:38 AM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Doug Levy wrote on 2/23/2021 10:38 AM:
Last year while motor gliding the western states I had trouble finding airports that can fill my oxygen bottle. I did get fills at Ely, Minden, and Inyokern. Do you know of places that can help out a visiting pilot?

Put a HUGE cylinder in your Phoenix! I use a CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi,
19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb. I mounted it in the baggage compartment on the bulkhead about 2.5'
behind the pilot. From Mountain High.

You might be able to fill at Parowan (they have cart), and I think I saw an oxygen cart at
Richfield, UT. Rifle, CO, might have it, or you may be able to get a fill from Schmulik
Dimenstein, the local glider pilot that maintains his own cylinders in a hangar there.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Parowan Aero Services FBO used to have a Oxygen recompressor to top up those high PSI composite bottles, and a water bath to keep the bottle cool while doing that.

Unfortunately, the high pressure pump system stopped working several years ago, and Dave did
not have it repaired. I sort of recall him saying very few people had the high pressure
bottles, once the Germans stopped coming with their gliders.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Thanks Eric, that is sad. The Germans need to come back :-) I used to get my big kevlar wrapped cylinder filler there to high PSI. With EDS it was great.

Darryl Ramm wrote on 2/24/2021 1:03 AM:
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.

My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.

Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.

Ditto; also, welders do not want contaminants in their welding gases because people's lives can
depend on the strength of their welds. And imagine what would happen to the insides of a steel
welding bottle with high pressure water vapor in it.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter. At 30 °C in a dry climate that would be 10 g/m3 water content. Take that content to -10°C and would freeze you valve solid shut (without even to take into account expansion cooling).
On the medical cylinders we use in Switzerland, we have a small valve inserted into the valvo of the cylinder which shuts of the cylinders below a pressure of 5 bars.

Le mercredi 24 février 2021 Ã* 10:03:46 UTC+1, Darryl Ramm a écritÂ*:
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.

My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.

On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:19:34 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter. At 30 °C in a dry climate that would be 10 g/m3 water content. Take that content to -10°C and would freeze you valve solid shut (without even to take into account expansion cooling).
On the medical cylinders we use in Switzerland, we have a small valve inserted into the valvo of the cylinder which shuts of the cylinders below a pressure of 5 bars.
Le mercredi 24 février 2021 Ã* 10:03:46 UTC+1, Darryl Ramm a écrit :
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.

My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.


Thanks for all the responses. I only have room for one oxygen bottle in my Phoenix motor glider. Last year my trips were several weeks long with no well-planned destinations. Many days were spent with hours above 12 k. I had days where I had to motor, keeping below 10 k just to get more oxygen.
To add to the problem is not having ground transportation after landing to get to a welding shop. Last year while flying past Salt Lake City I talked to another glider pilot on the radio that told me oxygen was only available to club members at Nephi. I ended up landing at Provo to get a refill only to be told later that oxygen service was $140. They are used to supplying business jets. I talked to the manager who only charged me $40.
Haven't been to Moriarity yet but good to know they have oxygen. Hoping to find more airports with it.

Doug Levy wrote on 2/24/2021 9:12 AM:
On Wednesday, February 24, 2021 at 5:19:34 AM UTC-8, Tango Whisky wrote:
The point is that with welding oxygen, there is no tracability that a an empty storage cylinder hasn't been left open which would enable moisture to enter. At 30 °C in a dry climate that would be 10 g/m3 water content. Take that content to -10°C and would freeze you valve solid shut (without even to take into account expansion cooling).
On the medical cylinders we use in Switzerland, we have a small valve inserted into the valvo of the cylinder which shuts of the cylinders below a pressure of 5 bars.
Le mercredi 24 février 2021 à 10:03:46 UTC+1, Darryl Ramm a écrit :
On Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 9:47:53 PM UTC-8, wrote:
At the Cowley wave camps, there's the odd day when record attempts are made to 30,000+ It gets really cold up there as in -30C - actually surface temperature at night a week or so ago.

My welding supplier advises ABO for that kind of height and temperature, and I'm inclined to believe him. But the turnaround time for ABO cylinders is really slow here.
Your welding supplier is confused. **there is no difference** This is the perennial noise that comes up on r.a.s every few years. All the O2 in these uses comes from cryogenic fractional distillation. The cyrogenic process freezes out all moisture. All those cylinders are filled from the same liquid oxygen source. Oxygen distribution systems are inherently dry. If they had moisture in them we'd have a boat load of safety issues in handling and distribution.


Thanks for all the responses. I only have room for one oxygen bottle in my Phoenix motor glider. Last year my trips were several weeks long with no well-planned destinations. Many days were spent with hours above 12 k. I had days where I had to motor, keeping below 10 k just to get more oxygen.
To add to the problem is not having ground transportation after landing to get to a welding shop. Last year while flying past Salt Lake City I talked to another glider pilot on the radio that told me oxygen was only available to club members at Nephi. I ended up landing at Provo to get a refill only to be told later that oxygen service was $140. They are used to supplying business jets. I talked to the manager who only charged me $40.
Haven't been to Moriarity yet but good to know they have oxygen. Hoping to find more airports with it.

Since you have room for only one bottle, make it a HUGE one! This one fits fine in my Phoenix
(I can send you a picture, if you wish):

CFFC-048 carbon fiber wrapped, 48 cf at 2200 psi, 19.5" x 6.8", and 6.4lb

Pricey, but it lasts 3+ times as long as the common 14 cf aluminum cylinders, and often cheaper
to fill, because some places charge a flat fill fee instead of by the cf. It might save you a
lot frustration, too.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1