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#1
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
John Doe wrote:
How much of the American boarder with Mexico is out of radar contact? There was some fuss about the FAA creating TFRs for the UAVs that are flying with boarder patrol along the Mexico. Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other plane on an IFR flight plan? The "UAVs" are really remotely-piloted vehicles. The pilots are instrument rated and the planes are on IFR flight plans. That info comes from a USMC pilot of one of them. |
#2
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
Maybe IFR from their base to the border, but when doing surveillance of
the border, the UAV will often loiter in an area which presents a challenge to maintaining IFR separation. "Stubby" wrote in message ... John Doe wrote: How much of the American boarder with Mexico is out of radar contact? There was some fuss about the FAA creating TFRs for the UAVs that are flying with boarder patrol along the Mexico. Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other plane on an IFR flight plan? The "UAVs" are really remotely-piloted vehicles. The pilots are instrument rated and the planes are on IFR flight plans. That info comes from a USMC pilot of one of them. |
#3
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
"sfb" wrote in message news:r6Pxf.9$MG1.6@trnddc05... Maybe IFR from their base to the border, but when doing surveillance of the border, the UAV will often loiter in an area which presents a challenge to maintaining IFR separation. ATC provides IFR seperation to aircraft all over the world. Why is our boarder with Mexico so difficult? |
#4
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
John Doe wrote:
ATC provides IFR seperation to aircraft all over the world. ATC does not provide separation between IFR aircraft and VFR aircraft. George Patterson Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to your slightly older self. |
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
I'm not sure how that relates to anything. ATC does not seperate IFR
pilots from non-partisipating VFR pilots. IFR pilots are required to see-and-avoid just as much as VFR pilots. This TFR is a way around the see-and-avoid requirement. -Robert |
#6
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message ups.com... I'm not sure how that relates to anything. ATC does not seperate IFR pilots from non-partisipating VFR pilots. IFR pilots are required to see-and-avoid just as much as VFR pilots. This TFR is a way around the see-and-avoid requirement. -Robert I understand that, but if a TFR is the FAA's answer to UAVs, we're in for a world of hurt for GA in this country. |
#7
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
"Stubby" wrote in message ... John Doe wrote: How much of the American boarder with Mexico is out of radar contact? There was some fuss about the FAA creating TFRs for the UAVs that are flying with boarder patrol along the Mexico. Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other plane on an IFR flight plan? The "UAVs" are really remotely-piloted vehicles. The pilots are instrument rated and the planes are on IFR flight plans. That info comes from a USMC pilot of one of them. I understand that and it has nothing to do with my question....but thanks for playing. |
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:38:33 GMT, "John Doe"
wrote in . net:: How much of the American boarder with Mexico is out of radar contact? I would suspect the answer to that question is, very little. But that's not the question we should be asking. Why does baby Bush deploy UAVs for the mission of securing the nation's southern border? Because UAVs cost millions of dollars, and require a crew of 7 on the ground to operate them, not to mention the airspace grab through TFRs, the money spent on this non-hostile mission would be much better spent on live bodies in Cessna C-182s equipped with IR sensors. UAVs are useful for missions on which the potential for loss of crew is a factor, and about four times more costly to operate than conventional manned surveillance aircraft. If the Bush administration's goal were truly boarder security, they could field four times as many manned observation/surveillance aircraft. There was some fuss about the FAA creating TFRs for the UAVs that are flying with boarder patrol along the Mexico. And well there should be. The current UAVs lack the ability to comply with FARs requiring aircraft to maintain _visual_ separation in VMC. Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other plane on an IFR flight plan? Because, in VMC the UAVs are unable to comply with federal regulations. When there is so much talk about securing the boarders, I can't imagine that there is any strip of the boarder that we can not monitor by radar. The borders are unsecured, because the Bush administration doesn't want to secure them. The UAVs are being deployed to establish a precedent for remote domestic surveillance, in my opinion, not to secure the nation's borders. Given the cost involved, what other reason for UAV deployment makes sense? |
#9
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... The borders are unsecured, because the Bush administration doesn't want to secure them. The UAVs are being deployed to establish a precedent for remote domestic surveillance, in my opinion, not to secure the nation's borders. Given the cost involved, what other reason for UAV deployment makes sense? Window dressing, same as most of the TSA and Homeland Security nonsense. |
#10
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UAV's and TFR's along the Mexico boarder
"Larry Dighera" wrote in message ... On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 12:38:33 GMT, "John Doe" wrote in . net:: How much of the American boarder with Mexico is out of radar contact? I would suspect the answer to that question is, very little. But that's not the question we should be asking. Why does baby Bush deploy UAVs for the mission of securing the nation's southern border? Because UAVs cost millions of dollars, and require a crew of 7 on the ground to operate them, not to mention the airspace grab through TFRs, the money spent on this non-hostile mission would be much better spent on live bodies in Cessna C-182s equipped with IR sensors. UAVs are useful for missions on which the potential for loss of crew is a factor, and about four times more costly to operate than conventional manned surveillance aircraft. If the Bush administration's goal were truly boarder security, they could field four times as many manned observation/surveillance aircraft. I completely agree. I think the problem is, there are UAVs that are available now and it's an immediate bandaid to the problem. What we need is a call for bids for a long term contract for airborne ISR to work with/for the boarder patrol. I don't know of any fleet of aircraft/pilots that are standing by and waiting to do this job. There was some fuss about the FAA creating TFRs for the UAVs that are flying with boarder patrol along the Mexico. And well there should be. The current UAVs lack the ability to comply with FARs requiring aircraft to maintain _visual_ separation in VMC. Why can't the UAV just fly along under an IFR flight plan and everyone else just avoid the little thing just like any other plane on an IFR flight plan? Because, in VMC the UAVs are unable to comply with federal regulations. Guess it's time to change the FARs to welcome UAVs to US airspace....(like it or not, they're here) When there is so much talk about securing the boarders, I can't imagine that there is any strip of the boarder that we can not monitor by radar. The borders are unsecured, because the Bush administration doesn't want to secure them. The UAVs are being deployed to establish a precedent for remote domestic surveillance, in my opinion, not to secure the nation's borders. Given the cost involved, what other reason for UAV deployment makes sense? Politics to show that the administration is doing something to address the problem. I call it Bandaid Politics. |
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