Superior HK XM8 Kicks M4's Ass

In message , robert
arndt writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44

No, the Russians first invented the assault rifle in 1916 with the
Federov Avtomat.

Sorry, Mauser issued the first automatic rifles Flieger Selbslader
Karbiner in 1915 as aircraft observers guns.

So you're now going from "selective-fire rifle with lower-power
ammunition", the normal definition of an assault rifle (and one filled
admirably by the Federov) to simply "semi-automatic rifle"? In that
case, then you're batting level with Mexico, who had designed the
Mondragon (which was possibly the first automatic rifle to be formally
adopted as a service arm - by the Mexican Army in 1908).

Interestingly, the Mondragon was bought in numbers by Germany in 1914,
for use by aviators. Not needing oiled cartridges probably helped.

These were followed by
the experimental infantry Model 16 in 1916. The very first Mauser
experimental rifles were tested in 1908... well before the Avtomat.
(From the Encyclopedia of Firearms by Ian V. Hogg)

But the Avtomat was a selective-fire weapon, and controllable in
full-auto: the Mauser and Mondragon weapons were not. Or was the M1
Garand an "assault rifle"?

The G11 being so incredible that it's dead as a dodo without a single
service user?

Dropped for general Heer usage due to reunification costs, still in
use by German SOFs.

No, they've got the G36.

Also superior to anything in US Inventory... and
that gun also originated in WW2 with Niploit caseless ammunition
research!!!

No, it didn't (Nipolit was a moderately interesting idea, but has
virtually nothing to do with the G11's design: the key breakthrough was
raising the cook-off temperature sufficiently)

Rob

p.s. Nice try

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/5/2004 4:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Congratulations, teuton, it only took 40 years for you Germans to catch up with
us.

How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44 and the last was Mauser's STG-45... which the Mauser team went
to Spain and developed as the Cetme... before returning to Germany as
HK improving the design into the G-3... which has led to both the
incredible G-11 and new G-36.
IIRC, you got your crummy M-16A-1 which fouled like a MF in Vietnam...
20 years AFTER the Mauser STG-45.

Having said that, you really do need to get over your inferiority complex and
try to stay on topic.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What would an AF jerk like you know about rifles anyway? Ever fired
once since boot? I'll bet I own and have fired more assault weapons in
my 20s than you ever fired during your entire military career/life. My
dad was a weapons inspector and I still have a fairly large pre-ban
arsenal at home.

Rob

(B2431) wrote in message ...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/5/2004 4:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Congratulations, teuton, it only took 40 years for you Germans to catch up with
us.

How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44 and the last was Mauser's STG-45... which the Mauser team went
to Spain and developed as the Cetme... before returning to Germany as
HK improving the design into the G-3... which has led to both the
incredible G-11 and new G-36.
IIRC, you got your crummy M-16A-1 which fouled like a MF in Vietnam...
20 years AFTER the Mauser STG-45.

Having said that, you really do need to get over your inferiority complex and
try to stay on topic.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What would an AF jerk like you know about rifles anyway? Ever fired
once since boot? I'll bet I own and have fired more assault weapons in
my 20s than you ever fired during your entire military career/life. My
dad was a weapons inspector and I still have a fairly large pre-ban
arsenal at home.

Rob

From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/6/2004 12:37 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote in message
...
From: (robert arndt)
Date: 7/5/2004 4:16 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Congratulations, teuton, it only took 40 years for you Germans to catch up
with
us.

How so moron since we Germans invented the assault rifle in WW2 as the
STG-44 and the last was Mauser's STG-45... which the Mauser team went
to Spain and developed as the Cetme... before returning to Germany as
HK improving the design into the G-3... which has led to both the
incredible G-11 and new G-36.
IIRC, you got your crummy M-16A-1 which fouled like a MF in Vietnam...
20 years AFTER the Mauser STG-45.

Having said that, you really do need to get over your inferiority complex
and
try to stay on topic.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

What would an AF jerk like you know about rifles anyway? Ever fired
once since boot? I'll bet I own and have fired more assault weapons in
my 20s than you ever fired during your entire military career/life. My
dad was a weapons inspector and I still have a fairly large pre-ban
arsenal at home.

Rob

I wouldn't bet on that if I were you.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

A well-armed milita being necessary for the safety of a free state, the
right of the people to bear and carry AK-47 shall not be infringed.

robert arndt wrote:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Where's the bayonet go?

Cheers,
Richard

Richard Stewart wrote in message ...
robert arndt wrote:

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military...bines/xm8.html

Check out the head-to-head comparison. HK rules!

Rob

Where's the bayonet go?

Cheers,
Richard

Take a look he
http://sys.heatgame.net/Public/News/hk-g36-strip.jpg

Interestingly enough, the HK G-36 (which the XM-8 is derived from)
actually uses the old AK-74 bayonets left over from the NVA stock! Had
the HK G-11 rifle been adopted the evolutionary bayonet for it was
going to be a ballistic tube-launched device. This was in the design
stage when the hand-guard version, single rail model was testing.

Rob

From: (robert arndt)


snip

Interestingly enough, the HK G-36 (which the XM-8 is derived from)
actually uses the old AK-74 bayonets left over from the NVA stock!

Oh? And just when did the North Vietnamese Army get the AK-74? And why would an
industrial giant like Germany need to use someone else's bayonet? Are you
saying Hk made bayonets for the NVA when the could be made much cheaper behind
the Iron Curtain?

Does the X in XM8 mean "experimental?" How many have actually been used in
combat?

Do you have any other sources that the company brochures?

When will you establish a link between an infantry weapon and military
aviation?

How much of this will you choose not to answer?

Actually I don't really care, I just find you amusing and feel sorry for your
inferiority complex.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

B2431 wrote:
From: (robert arndt)


snip

Interestingly enough, the HK G-36 (which the XM-8 is derived from)
actually uses the old AK-74 bayonets left over from the NVA stock!

Oh? And just when did the North Vietnamese Army get the AK-74?

NVA = Nationalen Volksarmee (National People's Army), the East German armed
forces.

Does the X in XM8 mean "experimental?" How many have actually been
used in combat?

None as yet (at least publicly; it's possible some SOF units have used
them). The G36 saw combat with German special forces in Afghanistan. It
seems to have done very well there.

ONwe thing not yet mentioned is that there is a serious move afoot to
reequip with a larger caliber weapon (probably 6.8mm) and the XM8 may be the
opportunity to do it.
--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872

From: "Thomas Schoene"
Date: 7/7/2004 4:24 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: . net

B2431 wrote:
From: (robert arndt)


snip

Interestingly enough, the HK G-36 (which the XM-8 is derived from)
actually uses the old AK-74 bayonets left over from the NVA stock!

Oh? And just when did the North Vietnamese Army get the AK-74?

NVA = Nationalen Volksarmee (National People's Army), the East German armed
forces.

I know, I was tweaking teuton.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired