I stand corrected as to the arrival airport in the Collins incident, it was
Waukegan, as you stated, not Palwaukee.

However, I must take issue with you on some of the other points. Please
reference the following link:

http://www.thetracon.com/news/times050601.htm

You stated: "The accident was caused by both pilots not seeing and
avoiding."

However, the article states: "Student pilot Sharon Hock...was not mentioned
as a factor in the Feb. 8, 2000, accident."

Further: "The probable cause of the accident was Collins' "failure to
maintain clearance from the other airplane," said the NTSB report, which is
in line with a previous federal report outlining the facts of the accident."

Additionally: ""Factors relating to the accident were the pilot's [Collins']
poor visual lookout, and the . . . local controller's failure to provide
effective sequencing,"

And: "Fowler (controller) said he told Hock to turn "based on his estimate
of the elapsed time before losing sight of [her plane], and the pilot's
(Collins) verbal report that he had crossed the shoreline.""

You stated: "It is a class D airport. Controllers are not responsible for
separation or sequencing at class D airports. A fact seemingly lost to many
pilots."

However, both the NTSB and the controller indicated that "separation and
sequencing" were part of the controller's responsibilities at Waukegan.

Further: AIM 4-3-2 indicates that the tower at Class D airports will provide
traffic control in the Class D airspace.

Am I missing something?




"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...

Bob Collins was killed at Waukegan not Palwaukee. He was returning from
lunch at Janesville. The accident was caused by both pilots not seeing
and
avoiding. It is a class D airport. Controllers are not responsible for
separation or sequencing at class D airports. A fact seemingly lost to
many
pilots. Quincy was a ground accident involving a commuter. Meigs was a
mid
air. All occurred in VFR conditions and all could have been avoided had
the
pilots been looking out the windows.

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...
Actually, it happened at Palwaukee (KPWK) airport and tower, just north
of
Chicago O'Hare airport.

There were two fatals in Mr. Collins' plane, one fatal student pilot in
the
other plane.

The accident was the result of Mr. Collins mis-reporting his position.
The
controller used this information and directed the student pilot's plane
into
Mr. Collins' plane.



"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
om...

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
jsmith wrote:

Teaching them initially to fly without a radio teaches them to look
outside and scan for traffic.
It's the fools with radios that think just because they broadcast
over
the airwaves that they have the right of way and everyone should
let
them play through.

And my experience is that assuming that see and avoid will keep you
alive is one path to validating Darwinism.

Ron Lee

I would like to see evidence to support your statement. On the
contrary,
Quincy, IL, Bob Collins and six people killed while talking to Meigs
tower
all took place in northern IL within a few years and all involved
people
talking on a radio and not looking . Darwin would probably see the
invention of radio as a way to improve the breed.