Hey Ben,

Thanks for your reply. The answer to my question about
AST vs TAT differences still isn't clear - your description
of the differences didn't seem like differences to
me so I thought I'd probe a bit more.

Here's your post with my comments - am I missing something
or is the US 15-minute rule the only main difference?

In my opinion, the new AST format (as per Annex A)
is a considerable improvement upon the existing US
format. Put simply, you must fly through set areas
in a defined order (true in the US TAT) and remain
airborne for a minimum time (TAT has a min time too).
Your score is a function of the distance you flew over
the time you were on task i.e. your average speed (only
difference I know of for TAT [new this year] is the
addition of 15 minutes to everyone's time for scoring
purposes -- to reduce the final glide 'amortization
effect' that biases scores towards arriving right at
min time). If you come home earlier than the minimum
time your speed is scored as if you had flown for the
minimum time (true for TAT) . The person with the fasted
speed wins (true for TAT -- except some odd 15-minute
effects for speeds within 1 mph of each other). This
has effectively removed the possibility that an outlanding
pilot is being able to beat a pilot that makes it back
to the airfield. It has also made it much more simple
for pilots to understand the critical success factors,
i.e. just go as fast as you can and don't come home
too early.

Might need to go read the rules myself - yawn.

By the way - Peter Lyons flew my LS-4 for the NZ team
in the '83 WGC at Hobbs. Since then I usually find
myself rooting for the Kiwis as well as the US team.
Congratulations on a very good showing - and an impressive
climb up the scoreboard.

9B


At 14:36 01 September 2003, Ben Flewett wrote:
Casey,

Having read your posting through twice I am still struggling
to understand your question.

However, I do understand both the US rules and the
World rules for AST's (Annex A). The AST, in it's
current form, has departed considerably from the US
style of area/distance tasking.

In my opinion, the new AST format (as per Annex A)
is a considerable improvement upon the existing US
format. Put simply, you must fly through set areas
in a defined order and remain airborne for a minimum
time. Your score is a function of the distance you
flew over the time you were on task i.e. your average
speed. If you come home earlier than the minimum time
your speed is scored as if you had flown for the minimum
time. The person with the fasted speed wins. This
has effectively removed the possibility that an outlanding
pilot is being able to beat a pilot that makes it back
to the airfield. It has also made it much more simple
for pilots to understand the critical success factors,
i.e. just go as fast as you can and don't come home
too early.

With regard to your question as to whether these tasks
would be readily accepted by US pilots, the answer
is simple - glider pilot's don't like change. Despite
the apparent increased propensity of the gliding movement
to experiment with different task types, I have noticed
a great reluctance amongst individual pilots to change
any aspect of competition gliding.

Whilst AST's are an improvement upon their predecessors,
these tasks are still hopeless. Most pilot's I spoke
to at the WGC were strongly in favour of a return to
setting racing tasks only. My reasons are as follows:

1. AST's introduce too much luck. A scan of the results
in Poland will confirm this. On racing days the top
pilots results are far more consistent. One day John
Coutts came home feeling that he had either won, or
come in the top few places only to find he had finished
28th for the day at over 10kph behind the day winner.
Anyone who flies gliding competitions will know this
would (almost) never happen to an experienced pilot
during a racing task. This happened to a number of
pilots I spoke with.

2. AST's are very hard to set. Brian Spreckley seems
to be the only man alive who is capable of setting
good AST tasks. In both Poland and Hungary the task
setter clearly did not understand how to set AST's.
Setting AST's seems to require an intimate understand
of all the dynamics involved - very few people have
this understanding. For example, in Poland a task
was set that required pilots for make a decision as
to when to run for home approx 220km from the airfield.
As it was impossible to estimate the return speed
accurately, this lead to mistakes by a number of top
pilots.

3. There is much confusion about the purpose of AST's.
Some people think they are designed to allow tasks
to be set in bad/inconsistent weather. Others think
they should only be set in homogenous conditions.
Some think the primary purpose of the AST is to stop
gaggling (which in my opinion they don't). Others
think they are simply there to give variety. All this
adds to the confusion for the task setter.

At the end of the day, if you want to find out who
the best pilot is... set a racing task.

Regards,

Ben.


At 08:42 01 September 2003, Marcel Duenner wrote:
'Kilo Charlie' wrote in message news:...
...

Distance Task:


MAT type of task where any TP within the task area
may be used with no limit
on the total number of TPs. There must be a minimum
distance of X between
each TP, to be determined by the CD based upon conditions
and the task area.
There must be an intervening TP. A substantial airport
bonus will be given
and a modest bonus given for finishing at the home
airfield i.e. so as not
to discourage utilizing paths of lift that might not
end at the home field.
No time limitation. Other than those bonuses already
mentioned it would be
scored strictly upon total distance flown.

...

Sorry, Casey, maybe I misunderstood what you are saying.
But what you
describe above has nothing to do with any of the tasks
flown at the
WGC in Poland. Or EGC in Hungary last year.
In fact, there were no Distance Tasks at all. The Area
Tasks we had in
Hungary were Speed-Only-Tasks and you could actually
win a day by
landing out. Bonusses based on how many pilots came
home, etc, which I
think is total nonsense.
In Poland it was much simpler: No bonus for anything.
No speed points
for landing out. Same distance points for all finishers
(unless you
had less than 2/3 of the longest distance flown). The
result is: come
home as fast as possible to win.

Regards
Marcel