Paul, here is an example of a person who is trying very hard to sell you on
what he is building. If you buy into it, you will find that you will not be
able to build what will meet your stated mission profile for $85K.

And you are the classic example of the pundits who are always setting on the
sideline saying "It can't be done because YOU can't do it."

Referring to another fellow builder to add clarification is an example of
baiting you to build what they are building. If you really want to quantify
what I am talking about, take them up on it. Don't ask a builder, though.
Ask one who has built and is flying a platform similar to what you want.

Sorry Clyde but that is exactly what I suggested that he do, in fact, I
suggested that he join the builders group which includes a number of builders
who have already completed their aircraft and are quite happy with them.


If he is flying avionics from the 1980s, they will be prone to failures and in
general be maintenance headaches. If you value the lives of yourself and
your family, select avionics that are more up to date and in line with
today's navigational aids. Don't get LORAN, get an IFR approved GPS for
example. Get a six pack that is recommended for IFR work and get good ones.

Wow, now why didn't the rest of us think of that?

If you go cheap on this stuff, you will be putting yourself and your family
in peril. Once you price what a very good IFR avionics/instrument package
costs, you will begin to understand and appreciate the real cost of an IFR
platform. And that's just a beginning. Surely you can buy a mid-life
engine and run it for a while. Nothing wrong with that. But earlier you
mentioned the DeltaHawk or an XP360. Have you priced those engines lately?

Well why don't you tell us the price, I happen to know it and have purchased a
new one so I can tell you they are not cheap.

As I said earlier, to get a real four seater, you will have to move up to a
bigger engine than that, because the airframe will be bigger. It's just a
basic fact of life that you cannot get a true four seater to carry bags and
fuel for a decent long distance flight for $85K. As this poster said in an
earlier email, he can carry himself and his wife and their bags but that's
about it. The KIS SC is a wonderful airplane for that specific purpose, but
it is NOT a true four seater with bag capability (unless you're calling your
wife a bag) and long distance capability at 150 TAS with a decent IFR panel
for $85K. It's just not possible. Don't take a builder's word for it.

Yes, don't take a builders word for it, take the word of the guy who probably
hasn't built anything beyond a model airplane or you can contact some of the
builders who are already flying their aircraft and find out how much they paid
and what their expenses were and what extras they added.

Challenge someone who is flying such a platform and quantify the
performance, the quality of instruments and engine, and how much money he
has in it. I guarantee you that it will not add up as you think.

Yep, I know I sound like the Grinch, but I am just trying to set you
straight.

Clyde Torres


Prove it!

Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)