On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 22:36:47 GMT, "Ed H" wrote:



I'm not sure just how serious this is but ... Landings are bounced due
to excessive speed, AND/OR landing on the nose gear first.

Not to be too picky, but I think that bounced landings in a nosegear
aircraft are generally due to too great a sink rate. The gear are not able
to absorb all the energy and the aircraft is literally bounced back into the
air. The airspeed is not the direct problem; it's what you do or don't do

The airspeed is *the* problem. Without excessive airspeed it ain't
gonna bounce much. More than likely it'll hit and go splat.
That is why with the Bo a normal landing takes power and a power off
landing is a fair amount faster. According to the POH the extra speed
is to give enough energy to flare.

True that with excessive forward speed and poor timing at arresting
the rate of descent together can produce a really impressive bounce.
Flown by the numbers, final on the Bo is slow and steep. If the engine
quits you shove the nose down to get enough speed to flare. If it
quits as you are entering the round out you are likely going to be
calling your insurance carrier.

In practicing short field landings I have come in with just a bit too
much sink rate. It set down on the mains with the nose wheel high and
it did not bounce. As the airline pilots say, "It was an arrival".

Many years ago, I took a friend for a rid in the old Cherokee 180. I
asked him how much he weighed as he was a rather hefty guy. He said
240 which put us well within the GC envelope.

When we were coming down final I had reached the point where it was
time to pull the power and glide in. When the power came off the nose
went down and the airspeed headed up. I poured on the power and
brought the nose up. The nose wheel never touched but I'll bet we
bounced 50 feet into the air. The second bounce was only about 10
feet and we didn't bounce at all on the third touch down. He weighed
a *lot* more than 240.

with it in the roundout and flare. Strictly speaking, I could cross the
fence at Vne and still land without bouncing if I had a long enough runway
and enough patience to bleed off all that excess airspeed in ground effect.

As long as the touchdown is not premature. If it is, it is likely to
be on the nose gear which will come up bringing the mains down and we
are off to the beginnings of a beautiful porpoise. Flying on some
nose draggers will result in a beautiful imitation of a wheel barrow
and that can be exciting. I believe the Twin Comanche is prone to
this with an inexperienced pilot. (Any Twin Comanche drivers care to
comment?)


I use the disclaimer "nosegear" because the dynamic is different in a
tailwheel aircraft. In a taildragger, a 3 point landing must be at full
stall.

That's the way I land the Deb. (most of the time)
When I made my first landing at the airsafety foundation training the
CFII asked if I learned to fly in tail draggers. I told him no, it
was just the way I was taught. Main gear is rugged for landing and
nose gear is light, fragile, and expensive and for steering AFTER the
landing.


Anything faster than that will cause the tail to pitch down,
increasing the AoA and lift, and causing the plane to lift off again. A
wheel landing can be at darn near any airspeed above stall if the pilot is
skilled enough. In my Decathlon, which has a stall speed of 54 mph, I can
grease a wheel landing at 70 to 80 mph without trouble, and I'm not
particularly skilled at it.

That is faster than I land the Deb. Alone and with about an hours
worth of fuel burned off, I'd be coming down final around 76 to 78
*MPH* Even at gross it's only 80. Stall with me and partial fuel is
only 55 MPH. So touch down at full stall in ground effect is
probably 40 MPH or less.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com