"Evan Brennan" wrote in message
...
"gblack" wrote in message
...
The history of Vietnam is well and truly written from all sides
involved..


But Australian accounts are more one-sided than ours. Let us fill
in what is usually missing. Like a giant, Olive Green tooth fairy,
the US and South Vietnamese forces had to bail out Australia on
several occasions....


Yawn.


1. December 1965-September 1966. Since the Australian 1 RAR was
hardly up to the task, the US 173d Airborne Brigade committed two
battalions to operate against the VC and infrastructure in Phuoc
Tuy province, and to clear areas for an Australian base at Nui Dat.
The US Army provided helicopter lift for the Australian Army which
spent much of its time in Vietnam begging the United States to spare
more rotary wings. The joint force carried out four major operations
in the Phuoc Tuy province, SMASH, HARDIHOOD, HOLLANDIA and TOLEDO.
After that, the MACV hoped that Australia might be able to finish
the job without US assistance. They didn't.


Poor Evan, determined to look stupid again.

Given that the Aust commitment to Vietnam at the time was only 1 Bn is it
any surprise they were attached to a US Bde rather than told to handle a Bde
sized AO alone?

Once the Aust commitment was upped to a TF (Bde) they handled the AO
superbly.

"The Aussies taught us a lot about small unit ops"

Brig General Ellis 'Butch' Williamson (Commander of the US 173d Airborne
Brigade) to David Horner 29 Apr 1986

"When we (the US Paras) found something we shot at it. We did not wait and
establish the patterns, look for opportunities after out thinking the VC
commander. We were just not patient enough - too much too do in too little
time. We did not use reconnaissance enough. Our ambushes were for security
not to kill. Australians were quiet hunters - patient, thorough, trying to
out-think the VC. I would not have liked to operate at night and know there
was a chance of ending up in an Aussie ambush."

Lt Col George Dexter CO of 2/503rd Bn to David Horner 10 May 1986


2. August 1966. The Australians fought their best known battle
in at Long Tan. Though the Diggers preened and blustered about their
expertise at "unconventional warfare", they were in fact, rescued by
"conventional artillery" during the action. Some of the fire
support came from the self-propelled guns of US artillery units
based at Nui Dat.

Long Tan was a conventional encounter battle, where 100 patrolling troops
encountered and defeated an advancing force of 1000 to 2000 enemy.

It's hardly surprising that artillery played a major part in a conventional
battle, you cretin.

"Some of the fire support came from US guns", you are rather grabbing at
straws here, yes some was fired from US 155s - according to 1Fd Regt RAA log
it seems they fired 8 missions out of aprox 63 FMs.



3. February - June 1968. After thumbing their noses at Australia
for two years, the 5th VC Division and parts of D445 VC Battalion
were shattered by US troops around Bien Hoa and Long Binh during Tet
and Mini-Tet.

Thumbing their noses at the Australians from in a US AO were they?

Both Long Binh and Bien Hoa were well outside the Australian AO.

****ing idiot.



American troops should not have encountered these 2nd-
rate Viet Cong units at all,

They were bound to since they were in the US AO, having found the Aust one
too hot.

but unfortunately the Australians could
not handle them and let the buggers get away

Sent them packing is the technical term.

-- as they often did by
the admission of the Australian General Tim Vincent. The consequences
were that, thanks to US troops, it was quiet in the Phuoc Tuy province
while the enemy licked his wounds and slowly rebuilt 5th VC Division
and D445 VC Battalion.

Yawn, you were shown to be a liar and a fool on this one before Evan.


4. February 1968. Town of Baria (the Phuoc Tuy province capital)
was captured by part of D445 VC Battalion during the Tet Offensive.
The Australians from A/3 RAR and their armored units from 3 Cavalry
could not dislodge them with their own resources and had to rely on
South Vietnamese units to jettison the VC from Baria.

Ah yes, D445, heavily reinforced took Baria, A/3RAR with APCs and 24 Hrs
later B/3RAR engaged in street fighting and quickly ejected them and
returned to Nui Dat.

(Abbreviated from D.Horners "Duty First" P.231)

Try again Evan.



5. May 1968. Part of the Australian TF found themselves besieged
at FSBs CORAL and BALMORAL and American air power was called for help.
US aircraft carried out airstrikes on advancing and retreating NVA
and their supply lines.

You do know that that is the point of establishing FSBs don't you? (of
course you don't), give the enemy a target they must engage, then use max
force against them.

That is why the Americans asked 1 ATF to move into the previously US held AO
Surfers, to clear it out, they did and then went back to their own AO.

All the airstrikes and arty in the world is of no use if the Infantry can't
hold the position.



6. July 1970 to April 1971. In addition to responsibilities in Long
Khanh and Bien Hoa provinces, 2d Brigade, US 25th Infantry Division
was forced to operate in the Phuoc Tuy province because the Australian
Army could not handle the enemy or pacification program without us.
This is in addition to the fact that US troops guarded the seaport and
other installations at Vung Tau, and provided road convoy security to
and from.

Yawn, 1 ATF pacified the area quite nicely, in the dates you indicate the
Australian deployment was winding down (like the US one) however -

"the sustained effort against D445 and D440 in the period Sept 1969 - Apr
1970 resulted in those units becoming essentially inactive, and subsequently
they were removed from the province for rest, reinforcement and retraining"
D. Horner "Duty First" P.271


7. April 1971-June 1972. The 2d Brigade, US 25th Infantry Division
was replaced by the 3d Brigade, US 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile).
Despite the recent and massive withdrawl of Allied forces, the Air Cav
"fire brigade" was responsible for ranging three provinces, Binh Tuy,
Long Khanh and Phuoc Tuy. Their air assault training and larger fleet
of helicopter lift and gunships made this possible. Such widespread
coverage was well beyond the capability of any Australian brigade.

So?


8. 1965-1972. Supply flow to Viet Cong units in Phuoc Tuy province
came via the Ho Chi Minh Trail, Mekong Delta and ports in Cambodia.
This meant the goods had to pass through areas that were patrolled by
Americans and other Allied units, who often intercepted the supplies.
Captured documents revealed that, thanks to US forces, VC units in the
Phuoc Tuy province complained of shortages in food and other stocks.

and do you have a point?

Allied participation in the Phuoc Tuy province and against the 5th VC
Division and D445 VC Battalion has been carefully downplayed or lashed
up by Australia. Oz could not fail when their American guardian angels
were running around tweaking circumstance.

Of course it has, poor sad little Evan, why don't you tell us all about your
military experience and how well you can judge these matters?